1 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:15,765 I'm going to work in Woolworth's 2 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,465 When I grow up I want to be an astronaut 3 00:00:18,500 --> 00:00:21,000 When I get married I'd like to have two children 4 00:00:21,035 --> 00:00:24,600 My hearts desire is to see my Daddy 5 00:00:24,635 --> 00:00:27,600 I don't want to answer that 6 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:32,800 This is no ordinary outing at the zoo 7 00:00:32,835 --> 00:00:34,865 it's a very special occasion 8 00:00:34,900 --> 00:00:38,500 we've brought these children together for the very first time 9 00:00:39,900 --> 00:00:41,465 they're like any other children 10 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:45,800 except that they come from startlingly different backgrounds 11 00:00:45,835 --> 00:00:47,165 Stop it at once! 12 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,800 We brought these children together because we wanted a glimpse 13 00:00:50,835 --> 00:00:53,865 of England in the year 2000 14 00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:57,000 the shop steward and the executive of the year 2000 15 00:00:57,035 --> 00:00:59,500 are now seven years old 16 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,265 In 1964 World in Action made Seven Up 17 00:01:07,300 --> 00:01:10,900 we have been back to film these children every seven years 18 00:01:12,700 --> 00:01:15,200 they are now forty-nine 19 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,700 Is it important to fight? Yes! 20 00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:27,400 Tony was brought up in the East end of London 21 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,400 I want to be a jockey when I grow up yeah 22 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,350 At fourteen he was already an apprentice 23 00:01:39,385 --> 00:01:42,300 at Tommy Gosling's racing stable in Epsom 24 00:01:42,335 --> 00:01:45,100 at fifteen he left school 25 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:53,000 This is a photo finish of when I rode at Newberry 26 00:01:53,035 --> 00:01:54,565 I'm the one with the white cap 27 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,800 I was beaten a length and a half for third and had a photo finish 28 00:01:58,835 --> 00:02:01,065 Do you regret not making it? 29 00:02:01,100 --> 00:02:04,700 I'd have given my right arm at the time arm to be a jockey 30 00:02:04,735 --> 00:02:08,765 but now?... well I wasn't good enough 31 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,500 What will you do if you don't make it as a jockey? 32 00:02:11,535 --> 00:02:13,065 I don't know 33 00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:16,500 If I knew I couldn't be one I'd get out of the game 34 00:02:17,500 --> 00:02:18,965 wouldn't bother 35 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,200 and what do you think you would do then? 36 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:23,800 Learn taxi's 37 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:28,300 At twenty-one, he was on "The Knowledge" 38 00:02:28,335 --> 00:02:31,100 and by twenty-eight he owned his own taxi 39 00:02:31,135 --> 00:02:33,800 It's surprising who you pick up 40 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,365 I once met Kojak I picked him up 41 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,800 and Warren Mitchell, Alf Garnett, y'know 42 00:02:40,835 --> 00:02:43,317 - Have you got a girl friend? - No. 43 00:02:43,352 --> 00:02:45,800 Would you like to have a girl friend? 44 00:02:45,835 --> 00:02:46,765 No 45 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,765 Do you understand the four F's? 46 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,865 find them, feed them and forget them 47 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:53,900 the other F, I'll let you use your own discrimination 48 00:02:53,935 --> 00:02:56,400 but I mean, this one 49 00:02:56,500 --> 00:02:58,500 I tried to do the three F's 50 00:02:58,535 --> 00:03:01,067 but I couldn't forget her 51 00:03:01,102 --> 00:03:03,565 I went to a discotheque 52 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:05,765 he was in the pub earlier on 53 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,000 and afterwards we went to a disco and Tony was standing there 54 00:03:10,035 --> 00:03:13,400 and I just... from there that was it 55 00:03:15,500 --> 00:03:17,700 couldn't get rid of him! 56 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:23,200 We have our ups and downs, no more than anyone else 57 00:03:23,300 --> 00:03:26,350 I think you've got to work at a marriage 58 00:03:26,385 --> 00:03:29,400 I think all marriages go through stages 59 00:03:29,435 --> 00:03:31,700 you can't stand each other 60 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,300 I think "Oh god I hate him I wish he'd get out" 61 00:03:35,335 --> 00:03:36,065 I do 62 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:40,700 We've been to the edge of the cliff and looked over a couple of times 63 00:03:40,735 --> 00:03:44,700 and we've always seemed to go back 64 00:03:44,735 --> 00:03:47,065 and we've stayed the course 65 00:03:47,100 --> 00:03:51,265 but I must say it's not easy being married 66 00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:55,100 By forty-two Tony and Debbie had left the Eastend 67 00:03:55,135 --> 00:03:57,500 and moved to Woodford in Essex 68 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,700 We were going to put a conservatory here 69 00:04:00,735 --> 00:04:02,265 if you look along here 70 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:05,300 we've put a patio in and a pond for the fish 71 00:04:05,335 --> 00:04:07,800 but the only thing I ever done was 72 00:04:07,835 --> 00:04:09,900 I planted them three trees 73 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,400 well since you were last here we had small trees if you remember? 74 00:04:15,100 --> 00:04:18,200 now they've sort of grown a bit 75 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,865 So why are the trees singed? 76 00:04:20,900 --> 00:04:24,400 We were burning some rubbish at the back 77 00:04:24,435 --> 00:04:26,465 and it set light to the tree 78 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:30,600 and there we were throwing buckets of water over it 79 00:04:30,635 --> 00:04:33,600 sadly enough it's singed the tree 80 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:51,500 At forty-nine, they'd taken out a second mortgage on the London house 81 00:04:51,535 --> 00:04:54,700 and sunk the money into a holiday home in Spain 82 00:04:54,735 --> 00:04:56,465 I'm very pleased with the house 83 00:04:56,500 --> 00:05:00,200 the progress we've made in the little time we've worked here 84 00:05:00,235 --> 00:05:03,800 and to get it all ship-shape, I think it's done 85 00:05:03,835 --> 00:05:06,500 to the testament of my wife Debbie 86 00:05:07,500 --> 00:05:09,800 As per usual! 87 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:14,700 Debbie went to the furniture shop and picked all the furniture 88 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:20,200 all what you see is Debbie's choice of furniture and her style 89 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:26,000 the floor, we were lead to believe we had a choice of tiling 90 00:05:26,035 --> 00:05:29,465 whether it's a light beige or light brown 91 00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:33,300 That's the first I've heard that we had a choice, 'cause I would've had plain 92 00:05:33,335 --> 00:05:37,517 I've just gone into the neighbours house and they've got all plain tiles 93 00:05:37,552 --> 00:05:41,700 and I asked him and he said it was a choice that we had when we bought it 94 00:05:42,500 --> 00:05:45,600 - So that was where the mistake was made - Because you don't listen 95 00:05:45,635 --> 00:05:48,800 - Say that again - You don't listen - I Can't hear you 96 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:53,265 Tony and Debbie still work as London cabbies 97 00:05:53,300 --> 00:05:56,600 We sold our cabs as we're going to spend more time out here 98 00:05:56,635 --> 00:05:59,865 so it's not really conducive to own the cab is it? - No 99 00:05:59,900 --> 00:06:04,400 because the cab will be left out on the drive, it's pointless 100 00:06:04,435 --> 00:06:08,365 and we just hire a cab independently now 101 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:13,300 I'm working harder now than what I ever have done, but 102 00:06:13,335 --> 00:06:16,765 I feel that it's for something 103 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,365 Tell me son, what do you want to be a cab driver for? 104 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,400 all the holidays in Spain every year but it's hard work out there 105 00:06:22,435 --> 00:06:25,100 - You're not reaching me yet - I'm not getting to you? 106 00:06:25,135 --> 00:06:28,165 - Be bigger, dominate me! - Son! 107 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,165 At twenty-eight Tony was taking acting lessons 108 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,000 now he supplements his income with occasional TV jobs 109 00:06:35,035 --> 00:06:37,000 Oi! 110 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:39,265 That's all I've got on me 111 00:06:39,300 --> 00:06:42,500 If I had a pound for every time I've heard that I'd be a rich man 112 00:06:42,535 --> 00:06:44,300 Get him! 113 00:06:45,300 --> 00:06:49,865 A guy contacted me from my acting agency 114 00:06:49,900 --> 00:06:53,500 and I got in touch with him and he writes plays 115 00:06:53,535 --> 00:06:56,417 and he's been inspired by your Up programs 116 00:06:56,452 --> 00:06:59,265 which go all around the world and he saw it 117 00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:05,400 and we got together and wrote a biographical play about my life story 118 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:10,500 we took one of these episodes over to New York and did a play reading 119 00:07:10,535 --> 00:07:14,200 and I got up and played the lead role 120 00:07:14,235 --> 00:07:16,765 and it went extremely well 121 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,000 and we're looking for someone to pick it up and put it on stage 122 00:07:21,035 --> 00:07:25,200 Would everybody please sit round now, get on with their work 123 00:07:25,235 --> 00:07:27,800 I don't want to see any backs to me 124 00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:32,200 shouldn't be anybody turning round, Tony do you hear as well? 125 00:07:33,500 --> 00:07:35,800 get on with your work in front 126 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:37,800 Tony! 127 00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:40,565 don't turn round again 128 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,565 there's only one ambition really, I want a baby son 129 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,400 and if I see my baby son that'll be my ambition fulfilled 130 00:07:46,435 --> 00:07:49,067 no one knows that, only you now! 131 00:07:49,102 --> 00:07:51,700 Debbie and Tony have three children 132 00:07:51,735 --> 00:07:53,067 Nicky 133 00:07:53,102 --> 00:07:54,400 Jodie 134 00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:56,400 and Perry 135 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,900 Nicky's doing quite well, he's still a French Polisher 136 00:08:00,935 --> 00:08:03,865 it's an old time profession, as you know 137 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:07,900 and he's working for a firm and he's very happy in his work isn't he 138 00:08:07,935 --> 00:08:12,000 He's been brought up to be very respectful to people 139 00:08:12,035 --> 00:08:15,700 a very well mannered person, he's a hard worker 140 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:23,800 Jodie at this present time just relies on us a very great deal 141 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,500 and... 142 00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:31,400 she's been very scarred with a relationship that she was in 143 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,300 her relationship with her first love was very turbulent 144 00:08:37,335 --> 00:08:40,300 but he's the father of her kid 145 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:44,465 I'm going to make sure she gets through it 146 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:49,900 and it's been quite a strain on Debbie and I to see her in that situation 147 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,265 I'm very proud of Perry as well 148 00:08:53,300 --> 00:08:56,100 she got in the Post Office and that's what she's doing 149 00:08:56,135 --> 00:08:58,465 "Postman-Pel" that's our Postman Perry 150 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:02,865 she loves it, she works hard she's up at four in the morning 151 00:09:02,900 --> 00:09:06,900 She's got a lovely boyfriend, he loves her more than you can imagine 152 00:09:06,935 --> 00:09:09,665 and he's certainly got my blessing 153 00:09:09,700 --> 00:09:14,500 big lad, very nice guy, loves his football, typical Eastend kid 154 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:22,265 we are the backbone for the kids aren't we 155 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:26,500 Yeah but I think you're parents are anyway, you're parents are... 156 00:09:26,535 --> 00:09:30,500 you never visualise anything ever happening to your parents 157 00:09:30,535 --> 00:09:33,800 you think they're there for ever 158 00:09:33,835 --> 00:09:34,965 Tony's five 159 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:37,565 Harry's four, nearly five 160 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,700 and little Boo, she's nearly two 161 00:09:40,735 --> 00:09:43,000 - Three! - She's three! 162 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,465 I'm a hands on grandad 163 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:49,450 I love my grand children more than you can imagine 164 00:09:49,485 --> 00:09:52,400 I'd not say my own kids but in a different way 165 00:09:52,435 --> 00:09:55,500 it's an obsession of love, y'know 166 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:01,100 You see these grand children and they're part of you 167 00:10:01,135 --> 00:10:03,665 No grandad I'm doing that 168 00:10:03,700 --> 00:10:06,700 - They're hard work at times - We don't mind though 169 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:10,500 Once you slow down and you don't realise you're slowing down 170 00:10:10,535 --> 00:10:13,565 all I understand is, dogs, prices, girls 171 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:17,100 knowledge, roads, streets, squares and mum and dad and love 172 00:10:17,135 --> 00:10:20,600 that's all I understand and that's all I want to understand 173 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,100 By the time he was thirty-five, both Tony's parents had died 174 00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:28,965 I'm at the grave side I'm talking to her 175 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,065 I've got all the images running through my mind 176 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:35,800 saying like "Tony go downstairs and get me five cigarettes" 177 00:10:35,835 --> 00:10:38,065 and I used to go in the shop 178 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:42,600 she used to throw the cotton in a hair curler out the window 179 00:10:42,635 --> 00:10:46,500 and I used to tie the cigarettes onto the cotton 180 00:10:46,535 --> 00:10:48,465 and she used to pull them up 181 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:50,565 and she goes... I see her in the end 182 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:55,300 "Thanks Tony, see you after school, be good" and that's the way it was 183 00:10:55,335 --> 00:10:58,565 We knew my dad was terminally ill 184 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,900 although it still didn't make it any easier for us 185 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,900 when my dad died I took it really hard 186 00:11:07,935 --> 00:11:09,500 I can't... 187 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:18,100 Nellie Rose is my mum as her name was Nel 188 00:11:18,135 --> 00:11:20,365 and her mothers name is Rose 189 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:25,500 so my Jodie and all the family were conjuring up names to name it 190 00:11:25,535 --> 00:11:30,600 Jodie, out of thin air said Nellie Rose, the name of our mums 191 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,050 Sometimes on Saturday morning I go to the cinema 192 00:11:36,085 --> 00:11:39,500 sometimes with my friends, sometimes with him 193 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,100 - You don't - I do 194 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:43,865 She don't 195 00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:46,800 and why did you fall in love with him? 196 00:11:46,835 --> 00:11:48,365 I don't know 197 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,500 I don't know how you put up with me for so long 198 00:11:51,535 --> 00:11:54,165 sometimes I don't know how I stand him 199 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,800 Who's to say in another ten years me and him might've split up 200 00:11:57,835 --> 00:11:59,717 Quite possible 201 00:11:59,752 --> 00:12:01,565 You don't know 202 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:06,700 When we filmed Debbie and Tony at forty-two the marriage seemed to be in trouble 203 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:10,900 I'm not proud at all to say this but 204 00:12:10,935 --> 00:12:13,465 situations arise that... 205 00:12:13,500 --> 00:12:17,700 I have had regretful behaviour various times 206 00:12:17,735 --> 00:12:18,900 but 207 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,100 You got caught and that was it 208 00:12:24,300 --> 00:12:26,765 I'm not lying about the fact 209 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,500 you could always cover it up and suggest other things 210 00:12:29,535 --> 00:12:32,800 but it's true and let it be true 211 00:12:32,835 --> 00:12:34,765 You caught him? 212 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,600 - Yeah - What happened? 213 00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:44,700 well it was touch and go whether we carried on from it or not 214 00:12:44,735 --> 00:12:49,800 I did wish things that were said then were never said 215 00:12:49,835 --> 00:12:53,065 Perry wouldn't go to school for three weeks 216 00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:57,400 she wouldn't go out the door she was quite upset about it all 217 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,400 and I think it was a big shock because 218 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,200 you are their mum and dad 219 00:13:06,300 --> 00:13:11,500 We got on from there, it's seven years down the line and we're happy as can be now 220 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,465 Cameron told me to get my nickers here 221 00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:18,300 she says they're better than Marks and Spencers 222 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,300 Lets hope they're easier to get off 223 00:13:22,500 --> 00:13:25,550 there's ninety-six percent English here 224 00:13:25,585 --> 00:13:28,565 who all bought their houses in Spain 225 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,165 and this is where they shop every Saturday 226 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,600 it's just like an old London market from years ago 227 00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:41,065 what I like is it's so relaxing down here 228 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:44,200 you walk along and things are happening, the musics playing 229 00:13:44,235 --> 00:13:47,567 there's an English pub there you can just go in 230 00:13:47,602 --> 00:13:50,900 and it's really home from home but with the weather 231 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,250 from here it's about two-hundred yards along 232 00:13:57,285 --> 00:14:00,465 it's going to be all commercial units here 233 00:14:00,500 --> 00:14:05,300 my intention would be to turn one into a sports bar 234 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:11,400 we will put TV's around in a sports way and football shirts and memorabilia 235 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,100 this is tomorrow for me, this is my future here 236 00:14:16,135 --> 00:14:18,365 so I'm hoping to get a business 237 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,400 and if I was to bring Nicky, Jodie or Perry out here 238 00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:26,700 then I'll have the best of both worlds, I'll have my family here 239 00:14:26,735 --> 00:14:29,565 plus, the kids can be schooled here 240 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,900 well they can get what they want can't they? 241 00:14:31,935 --> 00:14:34,065 if you've got to work for it 242 00:14:34,100 --> 00:14:37,000 and they can just ask for money and get it 243 00:14:37,035 --> 00:14:38,665 and they can buy what they want 244 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:43,065 I feel that the economy will bust within five years 245 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:48,000 because people like myself have been giving and giving all the time 246 00:14:48,035 --> 00:14:52,900 the hard working family type people who have contributed everything 247 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:57,900 we have to work, we have to maintain a mortgage, we have to bring up the families 248 00:14:57,935 --> 00:15:02,100 and I feel that I've had enough of working all these hours 249 00:15:02,135 --> 00:15:05,517 congestion charges are forty pounds a week now 250 00:15:05,552 --> 00:15:09,376 zero tolerance with the police for parking tickets 251 00:15:09,411 --> 00:15:13,200 we're paying and someones getting it at our expense 252 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,500 Does it make you sad that you're going to have to leave your roots, your country 253 00:15:18,535 --> 00:15:21,300 I can't even go to the Eastend now to have a drink 254 00:15:21,335 --> 00:15:24,965 the pubs are literally closing down 255 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,900 other cultures are buying all my old traditions up 256 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:34,000 everyone likes their own culture and I'm no different from anybody else 257 00:15:34,035 --> 00:15:39,000 but in England, if you suggest this you are targeted as... 258 00:15:39,035 --> 00:15:42,017 an oddball or "oh you mustn't say that" 259 00:15:42,052 --> 00:15:44,626 - Safety by numbers eh - Definitely 260 00:15:44,661 --> 00:15:47,165 on the contrary I would say I'm sorry 261 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,400 if you don't like it, it's not to be offensive it's just to let you know that 262 00:15:51,435 --> 00:15:55,565 my way of being brought up was with all my own people 263 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,550 and I like being with my own people and I'm a traditionalist 264 00:15:59,585 --> 00:16:03,500 How much do you want to play for? five pounds? - Ten pesetas 265 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,700 - What's the dream now? - It's to be happy, which I am 266 00:16:09,735 --> 00:16:13,165 I'm happy now being healthy with all my family 267 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:17,100 we all want happy and health for our family and anything else is a bonus 268 00:16:17,135 --> 00:16:18,865 and that's all I really want 269 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:22,800 and that's all I'm really after, I don't want no more or less than that 270 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,265 - Unlucky Tony - Unlucky 271 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:30,065 Some people from Africa come here 272 00:16:30,100 --> 00:16:34,500 but when they go they put their clothes on 273 00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:39,800 Jackie, Lynn and Sue all grew up in the Eastend of London 274 00:16:39,835 --> 00:16:42,665 and were friends in the same junior school 275 00:16:42,700 --> 00:16:47,900 with this school we do metal work and wood work and the boys do cookery 276 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,200 We had a teacher at school 277 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,565 his favourite saying was... 278 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:57,765 "All you girls want to do is walk out, get married, have babies 279 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,800 and push a pram down the street with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth" 280 00:17:01,835 --> 00:17:04,165 I think that we all could've gone 281 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,300 and not any way that we wanted to at the time within our capabilities 282 00:17:08,335 --> 00:17:11,765 we chose our own jobs 283 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,465 we only had a limited choice anyway, truth be told 284 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:20,100 we didn't have a choice of private school as we couldn't have afforded it anyway 285 00:17:20,135 --> 00:17:24,800 The change is too much, our lives are changing far too much! 286 00:17:25,300 --> 00:17:26,465 all of us 287 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:31,800 when you look at the seven year old "us" it's difficult to believe it is us 288 00:17:31,835 --> 00:17:36,900 it's like it's someone else you're looking at, this cute thing! 289 00:17:36,935 --> 00:17:39,867 - I can't remember being cute - I wasn't cute! 290 00:17:39,902 --> 00:17:42,800 I would like to get married when I grow up 291 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:47,400 I don't know what sort of boy but I think one... 292 00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:54,500 thats not got lot of money but... 293 00:17:54,535 --> 00:17:57,167 has got some money, not a lot 294 00:17:57,202 --> 00:17:59,800 Have you got any boy friends? 295 00:17:59,835 --> 00:18:01,100 oh! 296 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:05,800 that's personal isn't it! 297 00:18:07,300 --> 00:18:11,000 By the time she was twenty-one, Jackie had married Mick 298 00:18:11,035 --> 00:18:13,365 and moved to the outskirts of London 299 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,800 It was horrific really, the cake what happened to the wedding cake 300 00:18:16,835 --> 00:18:20,565 it was sitting right in between Mick and myself 301 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,700 suddenly the columns just completely gave way and it just all fell into one 302 00:18:25,735 --> 00:18:31,000 I would say on average nineteen is probably too young 303 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:35,265 By thirty-five, she was divorced 304 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:39,800 We decided ourselves, just between the two of us 305 00:18:39,835 --> 00:18:42,500 we knew it wasn't going any further 306 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,900 we both knew we would be happier leading our own lives 307 00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:53,300 She and Mick had decided early on that they didn't want children 308 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,265 Basically I would say because I'm far to selfish 309 00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:01,900 I enjoy doing what I want, when I want and how I want 310 00:19:01,935 --> 00:19:02,965 and 311 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:08,800 certainly at the moment I can't see any way around that 312 00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:15,500 and this one off, here we go 313 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:22,400 had a brief but very sweet relationship, result of which was Charlie 314 00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:24,665 give us a cuddle 315 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,100 I don't really want Charlie to be an only child 316 00:19:27,135 --> 00:19:29,165 I'd love him to have brothers and sisters 317 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:33,800 but not necessarily loads of them! just one would do actually! 318 00:19:33,835 --> 00:19:36,600 - right Charlie, there's yours - right 319 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,400 - and please eat it all up - I will 320 00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:45,600 - and James - thanks mum - good boy 321 00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:48,400 and last but not least 322 00:19:50,700 --> 00:19:52,165 are you going to eat that one for me? 323 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,265 After her relationship with Charlie's father ended 324 00:19:55,300 --> 00:19:59,900 she met Ian and they moved to Scotland and had two more sons 325 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,865 - James - Alright 326 00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:06,100 By forty-two they had split up 327 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,300 Go on Lee, go and get him 328 00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:18,400 Despite the split the family all live in the same area of Scotland 329 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,765 There's your dad! 330 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,665 Lee and Charlie's birthday's are only a month apart 331 00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:29,100 so we tend to do something in between to celebrate both their birthday's 332 00:20:29,135 --> 00:20:32,200 so we usually go somewhere like an amusement park 333 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,265 Lee's got a lot of nerve hasn't he? 334 00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:41,400 and a little bit of bravado as his older brothers had said no 335 00:20:41,435 --> 00:20:44,500 I think he decided "I'm going to do this one" 336 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,600 Has Charlie shown any interest as to his father? 337 00:20:51,635 --> 00:20:53,100 No 338 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,565 Ian's his father as far as he's concerned 339 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:02,000 he knows and the whole family know that biologically he's not 340 00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:06,000 but in every respect Ian is his father 341 00:21:06,035 --> 00:21:07,765 always has been 342 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,800 he's done everything with him, been everything to him, taught him everything 343 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:19,100 What would you do if you had lots of money? about two pounds 344 00:21:19,135 --> 00:21:23,100 I would buy myself a nice new made house 345 00:21:23,135 --> 00:21:25,900 one that's all nice and comfy 346 00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:28,765 Ooh, I quite like that 347 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,800 Jackie suffers from Rheumatoid Arthritis and lives off disability benefit 348 00:21:33,835 --> 00:21:35,565 How is money for you? 349 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,400 Could do with more as just about everybody would say 350 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,250 but we manage, we cut our costs accordingly 351 00:21:43,285 --> 00:21:46,500 You've got "X" amount and that's what you do 352 00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:50,200 Has Liz got anything to do with that? 353 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:54,165 Liz has always got something to do with that 354 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:59,700 Ian's her son but she also says I'm here and she has three grandchildren here 355 00:22:00,700 --> 00:22:05,400 that she loves dearly and that she will be there for us 356 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,365 James has just had a trip to Alton Towers with the school 357 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,800 and she'll say "you pay for the trip and I'll give him the spending money" 358 00:22:14,835 --> 00:22:18,800 which is brilliant as it makes life easier for me 359 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,465 You've moved in the last seven years, tell me about that 360 00:22:22,500 --> 00:22:27,100 because of the arthritis that I've got I had to come to the ground floor 361 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,365 and this area is an area that I like 362 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:38,000 it's close to Liz so from that point of view it suits 363 00:22:38,035 --> 00:22:40,865 the school's across the road for the boys 364 00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:45,300 good neighbours, which makes a difference wherever you live 365 00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:49,365 it's how the Eastend used to be about thirty years ago 366 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,465 the doors would be open and the neighbours looked out for each other 367 00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:57,000 if one neighbour had a problem others would help out and that's how it is here 368 00:22:57,035 --> 00:22:59,800 that's what this place is like, a village 369 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,165 we deal with the problems with the boys when they arise 370 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:10,100 you've always got the problem of drink, drugs, smoking and not smoking 371 00:23:10,135 --> 00:23:12,565 and that sort of thing 372 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,400 Charlie's at an age now where I can't mother him 373 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,700 but I can't be his friend either 374 00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:25,600 he wants to work, leave school and get a car mechanics apprenticeship 375 00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:29,600 but the chances of him doing that are probably very slim 376 00:23:29,635 --> 00:23:32,067 Yeah well someone kept stealing my chips again! 377 00:23:32,102 --> 00:23:34,500 Lee, take your time, you'll make yourself ill - ok 378 00:23:34,535 --> 00:23:38,000 James tends to be a bit of a computer freak 379 00:23:38,035 --> 00:23:40,965 he wants to... 380 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,800 produce and make his own games 381 00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:51,100 Lee tends to be the outspoken one and is a bit like I was at his age 382 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:56,000 - In fact he's very much like I was - Is that a worry? 383 00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:01,900 I think that's... that's terrible! how dare you say that to me! 384 00:24:01,935 --> 00:24:05,900 why would that be a worry? do you think I've turned out badly? 385 00:24:05,935 --> 00:24:09,900 No, sometimes you see things you don't like in yourself 386 00:24:09,935 --> 00:24:12,767 then you see them in your child and you think... 387 00:24:12,802 --> 00:24:15,600 I never said he'd picked up all of my traits 388 00:24:15,635 --> 00:24:19,265 I think he's picked up my best traits 389 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:22,700 If you're not going to play nice... right go to bed then - No! 390 00:24:22,735 --> 00:24:26,765 he has a temper which isn't as bad as when he was younger 391 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:33,000 but it is something he knows about and he tries very hard to control 392 00:24:33,035 --> 00:24:36,465 Does your temper get you into trouble? 393 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:40,200 You're probably the best one to answer that, does it? 394 00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:44,065 you and I have had arguments on occasions 395 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:47,500 Did you meet enough men before you decided who to marry? 396 00:24:47,535 --> 00:24:50,165 What do you mean by settled down? 397 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,600 If you think that getting married as far as we're concerned is a case of 398 00:24:54,635 --> 00:24:59,000 go to work, come home, cook tea for husband, go to bed, get up, go to work 399 00:24:59,035 --> 00:25:01,200 you're totally mistaken 400 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,665 I like it when you shout at me! 401 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:07,100 - I'm not sure you do really - I mean, I don't know 402 00:25:07,135 --> 00:25:09,500 What happened at twenty-one? 403 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:14,700 you asked me if I'd had enough experience with men before I married 404 00:25:14,735 --> 00:25:19,700 and I thought that was an insulting question and I got very angry 405 00:25:19,735 --> 00:25:22,565 and we stopped filming because of it 406 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,000 and if you look at the tapes of me at twenty-one, I'm sitting and... 407 00:25:27,035 --> 00:25:31,000 to all intents and purposes I might as well not have been there 408 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:36,200 but I was really angry that you even thought you could get... 409 00:25:36,235 --> 00:25:41,000 you wouldn't have asked some of the other people that question 410 00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:45,100 you will edit this program as you see fit 411 00:25:45,135 --> 00:25:47,865 I've got no control over that 412 00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:52,600 you definitely come across as, this is your idea of what you want to do 413 00:25:52,635 --> 00:25:57,265 and how you see us and that's how you portray us 414 00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:02,700 this one may be the first one that's about us and not your perception of us 415 00:26:02,735 --> 00:26:05,700 So how up to now have I got you wrong? 416 00:26:05,735 --> 00:26:08,565 How have you got me wrong? 417 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,250 The last one was very much based on... 418 00:26:12,285 --> 00:26:15,900 the sympathy and the illness that I've got 419 00:26:15,935 --> 00:26:16,965 and 420 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,700 what I may or may not be able to do 421 00:26:19,735 --> 00:26:22,065 it should've been about... 422 00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:26,600 what I can do, what I am doing, what I will do 423 00:26:26,635 --> 00:26:28,800 don't make that mistake Mike 424 00:26:28,835 --> 00:26:30,665 I am no way... 425 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:33,665 I am down and I'm depressed about my illness 426 00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:36,665 but I'm certainly not down and depressed about my life 427 00:26:36,700 --> 00:26:41,300 and a lot of times I sit and cringe when I watch those programs 428 00:26:41,335 --> 00:26:44,800 not just for me but for other people 429 00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:49,000 you can ask me about Ian and you know full well I'm going to say to you.. 430 00:26:49,035 --> 00:26:51,817 "It's none of your business, I'm not talking about it" 431 00:26:51,852 --> 00:26:54,600 there are other people on this program that don't do that 432 00:26:54,635 --> 00:26:56,765 that quite of their own free will 433 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,765 will talk about their marriages, divorces or the state of their lives 434 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,200 I don't think you should be into that, I don't think you should be asking that 435 00:27:06,235 --> 00:27:10,700 It's part of peoples lives and this program is about peoples lives 436 00:27:10,735 --> 00:27:12,865 No, yeah but that's... 437 00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:16,300 to me that's a part of my life that will never go on this program 438 00:27:16,335 --> 00:27:19,865 you know I've married, my ex-husband never took part in this 439 00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:23,500 - My partner now will never take part of this - But that's not my fault 440 00:27:23,535 --> 00:27:26,565 No, but that's because that's the way I want it 441 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,400 but it still doesn't stop you trying to get that information from me 442 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,365 So what would you like to talk about? 443 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,700 if you want me to represent you, we've talked a bit about the children 444 00:27:38,735 --> 00:27:41,067 What I want to do 445 00:27:41,102 --> 00:27:43,400 what I hope to do 446 00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:48,765 I just don't want that personal conversation 447 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:54,000 OK lets talk about what you'd hope to do and hope for the boys 448 00:27:54,035 --> 00:27:56,800 What I'd hope to do? 449 00:27:56,835 --> 00:27:59,365 I'd actually... 450 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,900 I'd like to go back to school 451 00:28:04,100 --> 00:28:09,400 so that I can hold a conversation with anyone in the world and know what I'm talking about 452 00:28:09,435 --> 00:28:11,465 so that I'm not stuck 453 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:14,600 "well I know a little bit about that but I don't really know enough" 454 00:28:14,635 --> 00:28:16,465 I'd love to know... 455 00:28:16,500 --> 00:28:21,300 actually I'd really love to start my education all over again 456 00:28:21,335 --> 00:28:26,100 My mum, 'cause she's got five girls she had seven years bad luck 457 00:28:26,135 --> 00:28:28,265 that's why she's got five girls 458 00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:32,065 I'd like to be able to have a happy family 459 00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:35,800 I know that's not possible to be happy all the time 460 00:28:35,835 --> 00:28:38,065 but as much of the time that was possible 461 00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:42,000 I don't know what Suzi's had, what's Suzi had that I haven't had? 462 00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:48,600 Are you different from what I should've expected at seven, fourteen and twenty-one? 463 00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:50,765 Maybe not enough but I've got it 464 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,600 I think I'm more intelligent than you thought I would be 465 00:28:54,635 --> 00:28:59,200 I have reached a level... 466 00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:03,200 in my life that I'm happy with 467 00:29:03,235 --> 00:29:07,200 and I enjoy being me 468 00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:12,500 but I don't think you ever expected me to turn out the way I have 469 00:29:12,535 --> 00:29:14,800 - How was that Lee? - It was great! 470 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,865 Yeah, Lee's always trying to better you! 471 00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:22,600 If we did all love Jeffrey and we all wanted to marry him 472 00:29:22,635 --> 00:29:27,300 I think I know the one that he'd like best and that's her 473 00:29:27,335 --> 00:29:32,665 I don't think I'd get married too early 474 00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:36,165 I'd like to have a full life first and meet people 475 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,200 - I'd like to enjoy myself before I... - Yeah, before you commit yourself 476 00:29:40,235 --> 00:29:41,965 Marriage means a different thing to me 477 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,900 I've still got my ideals about marriage I don't know what it's all about 478 00:29:44,935 --> 00:29:47,667 Sue was twenty-four when she married Billy 479 00:29:47,702 --> 00:29:50,365 they had two children, William and Katherine 480 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,100 I think that to get married young there must be things that you miss 481 00:29:54,135 --> 00:29:58,465 you must miss that crucial stage of being yourself 482 00:29:58,500 --> 00:30:02,500 because the minute you get married you're no longer a single being 483 00:30:02,535 --> 00:30:05,500 you're a partnership and that should be the idea behind it 484 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:09,900 By the time she was thirty-five she and Billy had divorced 485 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,700 I've never sat down and thought... 486 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,200 well, what was it? was it this? was it that? 487 00:30:17,235 --> 00:30:18,965 I just knew it wasn't working 488 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,000 there has been relationships when I could've settled 489 00:30:22,035 --> 00:30:25,217 but they didn't feel quite right, so... 490 00:30:25,252 --> 00:30:28,365 I've always come away and pulled away 491 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,600 and just waited until the right one came along 492 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,265 if they ever do! 493 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:39,100 me you loved me baby 494 00:30:39,135 --> 00:30:43,900 At forty-two when we filmed Sue in the karaoke bar 495 00:30:43,935 --> 00:30:47,300 she brought Glen along to watch her sing 496 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,600 We'd just met and things were going well but now obviously things are going very well 497 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,965 - Is this love? - Oh I think so yeah 498 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,900 We've know each other for a long time before the seven years 499 00:31:03,935 --> 00:31:07,100 and we've always always liked each other 500 00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:11,200 - He's good looking - He's very good looking, he's not bad is he 501 00:31:11,235 --> 00:31:14,700 Everyone says he looks like Paul Weller 502 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,800 whether that's true or not? especially now he's growing his hair 503 00:31:17,835 --> 00:31:20,467 Susan most of all likes Lesley 504 00:31:20,502 --> 00:31:23,065 - What? - Don't you think? 505 00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:27,800 - She keeps changing her mind though - Yeah I don't know which one really 506 00:31:27,835 --> 00:31:30,517 every thing's not that cut and dried 507 00:31:30,552 --> 00:31:33,165 it's not either career or family or... 508 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:37,200 but is what's in the middle, am I just going to carry on as I am now? for? 509 00:31:37,235 --> 00:31:39,965 and end up... on the shelf? 510 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,465 or am I just going to get married? could be any day 511 00:31:42,500 --> 00:31:45,665 I've been married and I've not got that urgency, Glen... 512 00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:51,600 we say "maybe we will" we're engaged, committed and bought a house together 513 00:31:51,635 --> 00:31:54,000 and to me that's a big committment 514 00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:57,700 every house needs money spending on it when you move in 515 00:31:57,735 --> 00:32:01,065 to have a wedding you have to put some cash into it 516 00:32:01,100 --> 00:32:05,700 when I got married the primary reason was because I wanted a child 517 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,500 the two to me went together 518 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,800 Have you and Glen thought of having your own child? 519 00:32:11,835 --> 00:32:14,665 well Glen got with me when... 520 00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:17,765 we got together when I was in my forties 521 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,450 and you don't have a baby when you've just started a relationship 522 00:32:21,485 --> 00:32:25,100 I didn't want to do all that again, I would've loved to have a baby 523 00:32:25,135 --> 00:32:29,900 'cause he would make a wonderful parent but the timing was off 524 00:32:31,900 --> 00:32:35,050 - So she's your baby? - She's my new baby yeah 525 00:32:35,085 --> 00:32:38,200 my kids are my babies but she's my new baby 526 00:32:38,235 --> 00:32:41,400 she's our baby! mine and Glens! 527 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,600 she's a wonderful terrier, she's got such character 528 00:32:48,635 --> 00:32:52,400 - What does she do? - Well she watches TV with us 529 00:32:52,435 --> 00:32:55,200 she's got her own favourite programs 530 00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,350 and she adores Rolf Harris, absolutely adores Animal Hospital 531 00:33:00,385 --> 00:33:04,665 and if she's at the top of the house and the music comes on 532 00:33:04,700 --> 00:33:09,500 she runs down the stairs and sits in front of the TV for Rolf Harris 533 00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:16,650 - The house looks nice, are you pleased with it? - I am very pleased with it 534 00:33:16,685 --> 00:33:21,542 it's a lovely step for us, we feel like we've got more space around us and... 535 00:33:21,577 --> 00:33:26,400 we've got to do everything inside but we can build on it and that's what we want 536 00:33:26,435 --> 00:33:30,300 we've been promising to have a house warming party since we moved in 537 00:33:30,335 --> 00:33:33,400 we've been here four months now so I thought it was about time 538 00:33:33,435 --> 00:33:36,300 people are just starting to arrive now 539 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,365 So you left the Eastend, why? 540 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,765 Well I've always wanted to move out 541 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,500 but you don't do that or the opportunity isn't there when you're on your own... 542 00:33:47,535 --> 00:33:50,165 with two kids, I wish I'd done it before 543 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,900 but it's timing, now is the right time obviously 544 00:33:53,935 --> 00:33:57,600 and the Eastend has changed, it's changed a lot 545 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:04,400 mum comes down to me, it's so easy they can just jump on a train 546 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:10,500 and the station is within walking distance so it's worked out wonderfully 547 00:34:10,535 --> 00:34:14,065 some people are just born into rich families and they're lucky 548 00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:17,700 I don't see why they should have the luck when people have worked all their lives 549 00:34:17,735 --> 00:34:21,600 and haven't got as much as they have, it doesn't seem fair 550 00:34:21,700 --> 00:34:25,000 So have you moved up a class now? 551 00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:30,200 Well it's difficult to say, "upper" or "up a" class 552 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:33,500 I suppose it feels like that to me 553 00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:38,050 now I've got the sense of pride, my own house 554 00:34:38,085 --> 00:34:41,200 and I feel like I'm building for the future 555 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:48,700 I've been a single parent for a long while and I've brought them up on my own 556 00:34:48,735 --> 00:34:51,965 because Katherine was only two when Bill left 557 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:57,265 it's been extremely hard and sometimes very lonely 558 00:34:57,300 --> 00:35:01,650 I only had to have one filling, that was all I had done 559 00:35:01,685 --> 00:35:06,000 William's a computer addict, he works in the industry 560 00:35:06,035 --> 00:35:09,500 he also constantly has a computer on indoors 561 00:35:09,535 --> 00:35:11,165 yeah smiley faces and windows... 562 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,700 he could've gone to university and he knows that and I know that 563 00:35:15,735 --> 00:35:18,765 I do regret that for him 564 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,700 but I've been there, I can remember I didn't want to do that either 565 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:30,400 and Katherine's temping as she wants to do a bit of travelling next year 566 00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:36,400 people say she's me reincarnated, she looks a bit like me 567 00:35:36,435 --> 00:35:39,400 and her mannerisms are exactly like me 568 00:35:39,435 --> 00:35:43,400 and she likes to enjoy herself 569 00:35:45,700 --> 00:35:49,765 to go into a relationship with someone with two teenagers 570 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,400 it must've been very difficult for him and they do clash occasionally 571 00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:01,200 I hate it because I'm an easy going person and I don't like strife 572 00:36:01,235 --> 00:36:04,365 they're doing things the way I brought them up 573 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,800 which isn't the way that Glen would like things to be done, so... 574 00:36:07,835 --> 00:36:12,200 you've got to learn to live together in the same house 575 00:36:12,235 --> 00:36:15,000 it'll always be a learning curve! 576 00:36:15,035 --> 00:36:17,300 I'm a peace maker! 577 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,700 When the children were old enough to go to school 578 00:36:20,735 --> 00:36:23,800 Sue went back to work and had a series of office jobs 579 00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:28,700 she now helps run the MA courses in the university of London 580 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:34,300 I still work for the college but we moved to central London 581 00:36:34,335 --> 00:36:39,665 now I'm the main administrator for the program... 582 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:43,800 instead of an assistant and I've got a couple of people who help me with that 583 00:36:43,835 --> 00:36:47,300 Hayley, could you fax that to Mary for me please? 584 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:51,100 - So you like the resposibility? - Yeah I love the resposibility 585 00:36:51,135 --> 00:36:54,867 I think I was born for the responsibility, yeah I love it 586 00:36:54,902 --> 00:36:58,501 - Well I've never been abroad - No, nor have I - I have 587 00:36:58,536 --> 00:37:02,100 - Oh yeah 'cause you went on that cruise didn't you - Yeah 588 00:37:02,135 --> 00:37:05,265 once a year we go to Cornwall or Devon 589 00:37:05,300 --> 00:37:09,300 we try to find a different spot every year and we bring the dog 590 00:37:09,335 --> 00:37:11,565 it's just such a lovely place 591 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,465 every time you turn a corner there's a different sight 592 00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:20,800 you never know what you're going to find, everythings so beautiful 593 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:27,165 we both had childhood holidays here and good memories 594 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,900 and we decided to come back and we've been coming ever since 595 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,700 it's nice for us just to be a couple for a week 596 00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:39,400 when we retire or maybe before if we get lucky 597 00:37:39,435 --> 00:37:42,665 this is the sort of place we'd like to come to 598 00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:46,300 that one there right in the middle nearest the beach, that would be ideal 599 00:37:46,335 --> 00:37:50,000 absolute perfect, the perfect place 600 00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:55,400 oh that was a good one! 601 00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:58,700 *speaks Latin* 602 00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:08,265 Yes speak up, fill up the gaps on the board 603 00:38:08,300 --> 00:38:12,000 When he was seven, Bruce was at a pre-preparatory boarding school 604 00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:15,850 at fourteen, St. Paul's school in London 605 00:38:15,885 --> 00:38:19,392 They don't enforce being upper class 606 00:38:19,427 --> 00:38:22,865 and things like that at St. Paul's 607 00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:27,900 they suggest that you don't have long hair and do get it cut 608 00:38:27,935 --> 00:38:32,300 and they teach you to be reasonably well mannered 609 00:38:32,335 --> 00:38:36,000 but not to sniff on the poorer people 610 00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:41,900 At twenty-one he was in his last year at Oxford reading maths 611 00:38:41,935 --> 00:38:45,165 You can show that this is irreducible 612 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,400 then you do a transformation on this point and X = T two 613 00:38:49,435 --> 00:38:51,265 Good that's a nice way of doing it 614 00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:55,400 particularly using Eisentstien down here, his test is very powerful 615 00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:02,500 At twenty-eight Bruce was teaching maths in East London 616 00:39:02,535 --> 00:39:05,165 Well going to Africa 617 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,700 and try and teach people who are not civilised 618 00:39:09,735 --> 00:39:13,400 to be more or less good 619 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,000 At thirty-five, he was teaching in Sylhet in Northrn Bangladesh 620 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,250 then I've also got the chance to learn a bit of Bangla 621 00:39:25,285 --> 00:39:28,300 which is very difficult, I'm not doing very well at 622 00:39:28,335 --> 00:39:30,000 *Speaks Bangla* 623 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:40,065 By forty-two Bruce is back in the Eastend 624 00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:43,000 running the maths department at a girls school 625 00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:06,365 at forty-nine he's teaching at St Alban's 626 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:10,700 a large boys independent school which has girls in the sixth form 627 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,200 I sing in the choir twice a week on Monday's and Friday's we go to the Abbey 628 00:40:16,235 --> 00:40:19,400 because in the early days the school was in the Abbey 629 00:40:19,435 --> 00:40:22,367 going back to 948 630 00:40:22,402 --> 00:40:25,265 - 948? - Yes, so... 631 00:40:25,300 --> 00:40:29,665 the head likes to say "we're in our third millenium" 632 00:40:29,700 --> 00:40:34,500 - So the school's over a thousand years old? - Yes, in one form or another 633 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,000 - What's the first thing we do? - I multiply by three 634 00:40:40,035 --> 00:40:43,167 You don't multiply by three, you divide by three 635 00:40:43,202 --> 00:40:46,751 Tell me what's exciting about teaching here? 636 00:40:46,786 --> 00:40:50,300 There is a higher academic level to teach 637 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,200 then you can see pupils at a more developed level 638 00:40:54,235 --> 00:40:56,265 that flash of recognition 639 00:40:56,300 --> 00:41:01,500 and engendering their love of the subject that I had at their age 640 00:41:01,535 --> 00:41:03,465 there is a class society 641 00:41:03,500 --> 00:41:08,900 and I think private schools may help it's continuance 642 00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:16,700 Has this been a compromise of political principles for you? 643 00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:21,600 I would say, have a million angels infront of every teacher 644 00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:24,665 who is prepared to slog away at an inner city school 645 00:41:24,700 --> 00:41:29,600 make way, this is somebody who is prepared to turn up each day for this job 646 00:41:29,635 --> 00:41:31,600 Where's the graph? 647 00:41:31,635 --> 00:41:33,500 Sixty right 648 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,400 that motto "water weareth away a stone by dripping on it, not by smashing it" 649 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,265 was a motto for teaching in that you kept on teaching them and 650 00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:52,200 that eventually it would get through and pupils would change and learn and so on 651 00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:55,900 but in the end the reverse happened 652 00:41:55,935 --> 00:41:59,300 that water dripping on me, wore me away 653 00:41:59,335 --> 00:42:01,865 I just thought 654 00:42:01,900 --> 00:42:07,800 I don't think I can do this until I'm sixty and so I have to do something else 655 00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:11,800 Do your old friends give you a hard time for what you've done? 656 00:42:11,835 --> 00:42:14,565 They certainly do, they say... 657 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:19,900 "have you joined the Tory party, the golf club, the Masons?" 658 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,900 "you're driving a much better car than you used to" and so on 659 00:42:24,935 --> 00:42:29,565 well my girlfriend is in Africa 660 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:33,900 and I don't think I'll have another chance of seeing her again 661 00:42:33,935 --> 00:42:37,900 - Have you got any girlfriends? - No, not yet 662 00:42:37,935 --> 00:42:41,165 I'm sure it will come but not yet 663 00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:45,800 I do think a lot of people think too much about it 664 00:42:45,835 --> 00:42:50,300 I think I would very much like to... 665 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,900 become involved in a family, my own family for a start 666 00:42:55,935 --> 00:42:59,017 that's a need that I feel I ought to fulfil 667 00:42:59,052 --> 00:43:02,100 and would like to fulfil and would do it well 668 00:43:02,135 --> 00:43:04,265 yes I haven't got married or whatever 669 00:43:04,300 --> 00:43:08,900 and I suppose that would've been something which I'd hoped had happened 670 00:43:08,935 --> 00:43:11,565 Well you're getting on a bit, are you getting worried? 671 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:16,700 Well not really, I'm always optimistic who knows who I might meet tomorrow 672 00:43:16,735 --> 00:43:21,800 and in the middle of a conversation about something completely different 673 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:26,965 he just asked if I'd like to marry him 674 00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,200 and if I hadn't been listening carefully I would have missed it completely 675 00:43:30,235 --> 00:43:33,617 - To love and to cherish - To love and to cherish 676 00:43:33,652 --> 00:43:36,965 - Till death us do part - Till death us do part 677 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:41,400 - Is this a beetroot or something? - I think it's just a weed 678 00:43:41,435 --> 00:43:43,665 Do you enjoy gardening? 679 00:43:43,700 --> 00:43:48,465 Well under Penny's directions I do whatever she asks 680 00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:52,300 I don't know what to do here or what order to do things in 681 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,000 she and her mother are quite good at this 682 00:43:55,035 --> 00:43:56,765 So you're the labourer? 683 00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:01,365 Yes, I'm the unpaid labourer, the serf 684 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:07,700 the Feudal Vassel or whatever, Penny will give you the correct medieval term 685 00:44:08,500 --> 00:44:11,265 We don't argue very much 686 00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:15,065 Not really, we haven't really had a full blown row 687 00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:20,800 Our arguments tend to be two sentences and I go off and sulk for 24 hours 688 00:44:21,100 --> 00:44:23,665 - How are you doing dear? - Fine thank you 689 00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:27,800 one positive influence on him, I've stopping him apologising 690 00:44:27,835 --> 00:44:31,165 when I first knew him he kept saying "sorry, sorry" 691 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,500 and apologised for things that didn't need apologising for 692 00:44:35,535 --> 00:44:37,765 maybe it's just 'cause we weren't married then 693 00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,350 - You see I was winning you over then - Yes that's right! 694 00:44:41,385 --> 00:44:45,042 - Were you the world's greatest cook? - Well only pasta 695 00:44:45,077 --> 00:44:48,700 If you have emotional issues will you talk about them? 696 00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:53,000 Well I have the usual male reticence about that kind of thing 697 00:44:54,100 --> 00:45:00,000 If Penny wanted to give me a hard time she'd say "talk about your feelings" 698 00:45:00,035 --> 00:45:04,900 that would be worse than a 24 hour sulk 699 00:45:07,300 --> 00:45:10,165 We may have children I don't know 700 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,500 if in seven years time or so we're living in a slightly bigger house... 701 00:45:14,535 --> 00:45:17,565 with a young family that would be nice 702 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,500 I don't want to pin all my hopes on it and nothing happens 703 00:45:21,535 --> 00:45:23,565 we are quite old 704 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:29,700 I can see bringing up teenage children in your fifties might be a bit strange 705 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,200 come on then Henry, get on 706 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,065 is it more tiring than you thought? 707 00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:41,300 until you're doing it you don't realise how sleep deprived you get 708 00:45:41,335 --> 00:45:45,417 and how totally exhausted you are all the time for several years 709 00:45:45,452 --> 00:45:49,500 - That came as quite a shock - Sometimes I go to bed at 8:30! 710 00:45:49,535 --> 00:45:51,365 which is ridiculous 711 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,000 infact, I sometimes go to bed before Henry and George! 712 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,265 He looks like his father doesn't he 713 00:45:58,300 --> 00:46:04,100 Hmm, George has got the cheek bones that run in Bruce's family 714 00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:06,500 and what have I got? 715 00:46:06,535 --> 00:46:07,900 eh? 716 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:10,565 ooh! 717 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,200 that's hard to answer darling 718 00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,300 We're at my first school where I was from about five to eight 719 00:46:21,335 --> 00:46:25,400 and this is where I stayed for three years 720 00:46:27,300 --> 00:46:30,050 I can remember being happy there 721 00:46:30,085 --> 00:46:32,800 I can remember also being miserable 722 00:46:32,835 --> 00:46:35,000 because I can remember crying 723 00:46:35,700 --> 00:46:39,500 I always seemed to be beaten on and never used to understand why 724 00:46:39,535 --> 00:46:40,865 Squad halt! 725 00:46:40,900 --> 00:46:48,700 - You were here because? - My parents were seperated and divorced 726 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:54,300 and just to give me a stable place to be and be educated 727 00:46:54,335 --> 00:46:58,100 it was a solution to all those problems 728 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,100 my hearts desire is to see my daddy 729 00:47:02,135 --> 00:47:05,000 who is six thousand miles away 730 00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:08,265 I did miss contact with my father, and 731 00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:13,300 although I say it as a joke to Penny "time to send them boarding, as I was" 732 00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:18,800 and she says "over my dead body" but I wouldn't want that either 733 00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:24,700 Five years ago the family moved from the Eastend to be near Bruce's new school 734 00:47:24,735 --> 00:47:29,365 it's very quiet, it's child friendly and it just feels very safe 735 00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,500 and that's very important when you have small children, that the area feels safe 736 00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:41,300 what can you give them that you didn't have? 737 00:47:41,335 --> 00:47:44,865 contact with a father that is loving 738 00:47:44,900 --> 00:47:50,600 and they can realise that and show that love to other people 739 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:54,600 and realise when they're letting both themselves and me down 740 00:47:54,635 --> 00:47:57,900 I can be a guiding light for them 741 00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,400 Do you want any more children? 742 00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:03,600 Well... 743 00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:07,965 Bruce was originally talking about a cricket team 744 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,500 but he's got his opening batsman and that's going to be his lot, frankly 745 00:48:12,535 --> 00:48:17,000 I want you to play tomorrow, I'm not going to drop you from sarcasm! 746 00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:22,000 I run one of the junior teams here, the under thirteens 747 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,500 nearly two-hundred boys there doing that on a saturday 748 00:48:26,535 --> 00:48:29,700 rather than other things that could waylay them 749 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:35,400 so that combination of playing in a team and the ability to back each other up 750 00:48:35,435 --> 00:48:39,300 and form friendships that's such a nice thing 751 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,965 At weekends Bruce plays village cricket 752 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,000 We don't really mind who wins and loses, we obviously prefer to win 753 00:48:49,035 --> 00:48:53,200 and we go on tour every year and go down to Devon 754 00:48:53,700 --> 00:48:57,400 it's such a nice bunch of mates and I've known some of them for twenty-five years 755 00:48:57,435 --> 00:49:01,300 you can play it at a reasonable level until your in your sixties 756 00:49:01,500 --> 00:49:03,965 and what about your batting skills? 757 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:09,400 I'm mainly a bit of a slogger so I tend to bat down the order 6,7,8 758 00:49:09,435 --> 00:49:14,800 it can be brief but the last time I played I got fifty 759 00:49:22,700 --> 00:49:25,265 Do you have fears for the future? 760 00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:31,700 I'm kind of worried that the boys will turn out alright, I hope they avoid drugs 761 00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:37,000 to see them sleeping or carrying them around is just fantastic 762 00:49:37,035 --> 00:49:40,565 and the smell of them and the look of them is just... 763 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:45,500 you just want to protect them from everything that's harmful to them 764 00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:50,400 When you look back at yourself at seven can we see you now? 765 00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:56,900 I can't really recognise myself, he looks a little bit lost and sad, I think 766 00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:03,500 I'm quite surprised to be contented and reasonably happy 767 00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,265 Do you have a dream? 768 00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:13,400 I would've liked to play international cricket but I wasn't good enough 769 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:18,200 one's dreams go in the day to day living of ordinary life 770 00:50:18,235 --> 00:50:21,565 and family life takes over 771 00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:27,600 I think we just sort of live without our dreams 772 00:50:30,500 --> 00:50:32,565 I don't like 773 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,765 the big boys hitting us 774 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:40,500 and the prefects sending us out for nothing 775 00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:46,600 When he was seven, Paul was in care in a children's home in London 776 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,665 were you happy at the children's home in England? 777 00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:54,200 We didn't mind that really as we didn't know what was going on 778 00:50:54,235 --> 00:50:55,965 'cause I was a bit young then 779 00:50:56,000 --> 00:51:01,000 well my mother and father separated originally I think 780 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,665 they eventually got divorced 781 00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:09,500 I went to the boarding school for one year, then we emigrated to Australia 782 00:51:09,535 --> 00:51:14,365 Paul settled with his father and step-mother in a suburb of Melbourne 783 00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:20,000 what mark has it left on you, the fact you were brought up in a bad marriage 784 00:51:20,035 --> 00:51:25,600 The only thing I can say may have came from that is my lack of confidence 785 00:51:25,635 --> 00:51:28,917 and being able to show my feelings 786 00:51:28,952 --> 00:51:32,200 Would you like to get married Paul? 787 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,300 - Tell me why not - I don't like... 788 00:51:36,335 --> 00:51:40,000 say you had a wife 789 00:51:41,500 --> 00:51:44,965 say you had to eat what they cooked you 790 00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:49,100 and say, I don't like vegetables, well I don't 791 00:51:49,135 --> 00:51:52,565 I know I prefer to be alone really 792 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,165 I can't say I don't want to get married, 'cause I think I do 793 00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,200 but I want to be happily married and therefore I want to make sure 794 00:52:00,235 --> 00:52:03,065 What was it that you fell in love with, what is it about him? 795 00:52:03,100 --> 00:52:07,600 His helplessness I suppose, brings out the mothering instinct in me 796 00:52:07,635 --> 00:52:09,565 can pick him up and cuddle him and 797 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,400 he's also very good looking I think but he doesn't agree with me 798 00:52:13,435 --> 00:52:17,300 and in the summer he's got this cute little bum in shorts 799 00:52:17,335 --> 00:52:19,665 I can tell quite a few stories here but 800 00:52:19,700 --> 00:52:22,900 the one that really irritates me the most is when we have an argument he says 801 00:52:22,935 --> 00:52:26,717 "that's it, leave me" and I say "fine alright, I will one day" 802 00:52:26,752 --> 00:52:30,500 We had our twentieth wedding anniversary just before christmas 803 00:52:30,535 --> 00:52:32,265 Which was a life sentence 804 00:52:32,300 --> 00:52:35,165 Yeah! everyone reckons we should be out of jail by now 805 00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,000 To a certain extent we started thinking "do we really know each other now?" 806 00:52:39,300 --> 00:52:43,065 because you just get into the routine of.. 807 00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:47,200 going to work, coming back home, taking the kids here and there 808 00:52:47,300 --> 00:52:51,500 I don't think you mean to but you probably stop thinking of each other alot 809 00:52:51,535 --> 00:52:54,700 I find it hard to express emotion most of the time 810 00:52:54,735 --> 00:52:57,300 although I'm getting on top of that 811 00:52:57,335 --> 00:52:58,965 I'm more than happy now 812 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:04,100 just the simple things to say to Susan, like "I love you" or something like that 813 00:53:04,135 --> 00:53:06,565 I mean I can tell you about it but 814 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:11,265 I really haven't been able to say it freely to Sue, y'know? 815 00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:15,750 It's a bit hard to talk about but I did have to get a bit of help 816 00:53:15,785 --> 00:53:20,200 it wasn't directly due to our relationship, it started at work sadly 817 00:53:20,300 --> 00:53:25,500 which brought my self esteem down which affected everything else 818 00:53:25,535 --> 00:53:30,165 and I was very fortunate that I saw a local doctor 819 00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:34,400 with her help I started properly coming back to normal thinking 820 00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,550 I was feeling a little worried about the relationship 821 00:53:39,585 --> 00:53:43,500 as I felt I hadn't progressed and I was going backwards 822 00:53:43,535 --> 00:53:45,965 and I still believe that 823 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:51,300 I was thinking that "why would Susan want to be with someone as... " 824 00:53:51,335 --> 00:53:54,265 it sounds funny but "as boring as me" 825 00:53:54,300 --> 00:53:56,800 'cause there was nothing there, what do I do? 826 00:53:56,835 --> 00:54:00,165 How do I say it?... 827 00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:03,665 it was a shock that he got that low and doubted the relationship 828 00:54:03,700 --> 00:54:08,100 because one thing I've always known is Paul's never doubted his love for me 829 00:54:08,135 --> 00:54:11,300 it's always been there and I've never doubted it either 830 00:54:11,335 --> 00:54:14,200 Did the physical side of your marriage suffer? 831 00:54:14,235 --> 00:54:16,965 I think it did 832 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,800 - I think it did really - For a little while 833 00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:25,365 But we promised ourselves when we first got married that... 834 00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:29,800 we'd never stop touching or being affectionate towards each other 835 00:54:29,835 --> 00:54:32,465 and infront of the children, we've always been... 836 00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:38,800 even now with the children, we still embrace a lot, both Katie and Robert 837 00:54:38,835 --> 00:54:43,965 Katie will sometimes say "Mother... stop it!" 838 00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:50,200 I was going to be a policeman but I thought how hard it would be to join in 839 00:54:50,235 --> 00:54:54,800 I just haven't made up my mind yet I was gonna be a gym teacher but 840 00:54:54,835 --> 00:54:57,417 one of the teachers told me that 841 00:54:57,452 --> 00:55:00,000 I had to get up into the university 842 00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:06,300 At twenty-one, Paul was a junior partner for a firm of bricklayers 843 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,600 by twenty-eight he had gone out on his own as a sub-contractor 844 00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:17,400 When I started working for myself things were looking good for me 845 00:55:17,435 --> 00:55:22,800 I was out of school, it was something I was very enthusiastic about 846 00:55:22,835 --> 00:55:27,000 and I was chasing the dangling carrot but never got there 847 00:55:27,035 --> 00:55:32,600 really, I'm a worker and not a business man 848 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,300 by the time he was forty-two, Paul was doing factory work 849 00:55:37,335 --> 00:55:40,200 making signs for a plastics company 850 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,400 What's the future for you at work? 851 00:55:43,435 --> 00:55:45,665 Well the job's still there 852 00:55:45,700 --> 00:55:49,350 I've had talks with them about whether they're ushering me out the door 853 00:55:49,385 --> 00:55:53,000 they say they're not, not that I'm that old but it's a bit of a worry... 854 00:55:53,035 --> 00:55:56,900 about getting a fulltime job with my skill levels 855 00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:03,100 Sue had been a hairdresser for most of her working life 856 00:56:03,135 --> 00:56:05,865 but at forty-nine she has a new career 857 00:56:05,900 --> 00:56:10,200 as an occupational therapist at a retirement home 858 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,800 you might be in your forties and getting older but you still have a lot to add and... 859 00:56:14,835 --> 00:56:19,900 and you can learn to go in a different direction, I call this my sea change 860 00:56:20,500 --> 00:56:23,400 - Do you have ambitions? - Not really now 861 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:27,800 I've been in this job ten years and never asked for a payrise 862 00:56:27,835 --> 00:56:30,600 that's just what I've always been like 863 00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:33,565 Has it affected home life at all? 864 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,865 It has affected a little bit because... 865 00:56:35,900 --> 00:56:40,100 I'm not there at home as much as I used to be for when Paul got home 866 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,400 it can be, and I'm sure I'm not the only one... 867 00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:48,950 it can be quite startling when you get home and think "there's no one here" 868 00:56:48,985 --> 00:56:53,400 - When I've been here for 30 years to come home to - It's really different 869 00:56:54,600 --> 00:57:00,200 By the time they were twenty-eight, they had two children, Katie and Robert 870 00:57:04,500 --> 00:57:09,700 Katie did well at school and got a place at university to study archeology 871 00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,465 they're photos of the dig in Cyprus that I went on 872 00:57:14,500 --> 00:57:19,265 and we were digging in bronze age tombs that are around the village 873 00:57:19,300 --> 00:57:24,200 You're the first person in the family to go to university, was it a struggle? 874 00:57:24,235 --> 00:57:28,665 It was a bit as I had to do it all by myself 875 00:57:28,700 --> 00:57:34,300 I had nobody to help me as mum and dad couldn't help me with my essays 876 00:57:34,335 --> 00:57:36,667 What does university mean? 877 00:57:36,702 --> 00:57:38,965 I'm pretty happy with Katie 878 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:41,900 and I'm not having a go at Rob but I've got fears for Robert 879 00:57:41,935 --> 00:57:44,400 'cause he's struggling a little bit 880 00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,000 Robert has trained as a car mechanic 881 00:57:48,900 --> 00:57:53,800 He's got reading and writing difficulties and he's coping with that 882 00:57:53,835 --> 00:57:58,700 we'd like to see him doing a literacy course now he's a bit older 883 00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:05,100 but just day to day troubles with making ends meet with money that's always hard 884 00:58:05,135 --> 00:58:07,265 He went nuts at me for using the phone 885 00:58:07,300 --> 00:58:11,600 "there's enough in that fucking garage you cunts you fucking do this all the time" 886 00:58:11,635 --> 00:58:13,965 What's Robert got that you gave him? 887 00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:19,200 Moodiness, I think he's even a little bit more moody than I've ever been 888 00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,700 he's not your average relaxed twenty-one year old 889 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,165 What you doing? 890 00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:32,165 We only had two children as we thought we couldn't love any more children 891 00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,800 as much as we loved our two and now we have our two grand kids and we love them 892 00:58:35,835 --> 00:58:39,000 - You love them as much, really do - As much, yeah 893 00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,300 With Rob and Stacy we don't know how long they're going to last for 894 00:58:44,335 --> 00:58:48,000 and I keep my fingers crossed they will last 895 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,500 we can only hope that they work at it like we do 896 00:58:52,535 --> 00:58:54,800 That's better, thank you 897 00:58:55,700 --> 00:59:00,700 In their twenties Paul and Sue sold up bought a van and travelled Australia 898 00:59:00,735 --> 00:59:05,700 I think it brought us closer together because we really got to know each other 899 00:59:05,735 --> 00:59:08,500 and we relied on each other so much 900 00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:15,500 One of the most important things we ever did with our kids was spend time with them 901 00:59:15,535 --> 00:59:17,900 and particularly when you've got holidays 902 00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,500 which a lot of parents do, go camping with them 903 00:59:24,700 --> 00:59:27,800 we've been camping there now for 19 years 904 00:59:27,835 --> 00:59:30,900 as Robert was two when we first went there 905 00:59:30,935 --> 00:59:32,765 So does this beat the old van? 906 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:34,765 This is the Hilton compared to that old van 907 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:38,500 So have you got any plans for any big trips now the children have gone? 908 00:59:38,535 --> 00:59:41,565 I think we'd like to do something again but... 909 00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:45,300 you need to have the finances to support yourself for a few of months 910 00:59:45,335 --> 00:59:49,267 and the monitors up in the wash room sends the nurse out 911 00:59:49,302 --> 00:59:53,200 "well there's no talking" "no I wasn't talking today" 912 00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:59,600 I'm more at peace around the horses and the animals 913 00:59:59,900 --> 01:00:03,600 I can be upset and on edge and come down to the horses 914 01:00:03,635 --> 01:00:07,300 and within three or four minutes I've forgotten everything 915 01:00:07,335 --> 01:00:09,900 so it does calm me down 916 01:00:11,100 --> 01:00:15,000 The last time I came you had the horses, what's happened to the horses? 917 01:00:15,700 --> 01:00:22,500 Well we gave Poinken away to some people because it was a little bit expensive 918 01:00:22,535 --> 01:00:25,565 and also the fun went out of it basically 919 01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:29,900 - How do you get that peace now? - I think I got it through running 920 01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:37,900 Well most Sunday mornings we go training when Paul's doing marathons 921 01:00:38,700 --> 01:00:43,500 when he runs great distances I follow on the bike as a bit of support 922 01:00:43,535 --> 01:00:47,600 and I take drinks for him so he doesn't get dehydrated 923 01:00:47,635 --> 01:00:50,700 it's something we can do together so we do that 924 01:00:50,735 --> 01:00:53,665 We're not doing any great distances... 925 01:00:53,700 --> 01:00:58,000 I have an injured knee, I'm just building it up so it gets used to running again 926 01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:03,065 I did the Host City marathon, that was my first marathon I did 927 01:01:03,100 --> 01:01:07,500 up in Sydney they trialed the Olympic course and it was open to anyone 928 01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:13,700 so I figured if you were going to do a marathon that would be the one to do 929 01:01:13,735 --> 01:01:16,400 I nearly died but I enjoyed it! 930 01:01:17,500 --> 01:01:22,800 happiness to me is a love for life and a love for people 931 01:01:23,900 --> 01:01:27,265 When you look back on the marriage and the family, any regrets? 932 01:01:27,300 --> 01:01:32,000 No, we wish we'd had more children but who knows if we'd had them... 933 01:01:32,035 --> 01:01:36,700 - We'd have said "too many!" - We might be both in the nut house! 934 01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:40,900 Without a family what have you got? nothing 935 01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:43,265 well that's the way I feel 936 01:01:43,300 --> 01:01:46,200 - More than work and achievements? - Yeah 937 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:51,800 You've got nothing unless you've got family and health anyway 938 01:01:51,835 --> 01:01:57,500 it would be awfully lonely without family I think 939 01:01:57,535 --> 01:02:00,500 Tell me, do you have any boyfriends Suzy? 940 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:03,265 Yes 941 01:02:03,300 --> 01:02:05,065 Tell me about them 942 01:02:05,100 --> 01:02:07,900 Well he lives up in Scotland 943 01:02:07,935 --> 01:02:10,700 and I think he's thirteen 944 01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,300 Have you got any boyfriends Suzy? 945 01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:20,400 What is your attitude towards marriage? 946 01:02:20,435 --> 01:02:21,900 for yourself? 947 01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,400 Well I don't know, I haven't given it a lot of thought 948 01:02:27,435 --> 01:02:30,400 'cause I'm very, very cynical about it 949 01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:36,150 but then you get a certain amount of faith restored in it 950 01:02:36,185 --> 01:02:39,700 I've got friends and their parents are happily married 951 01:02:39,735 --> 01:02:41,900 and so it does put faith back into you, but 952 01:02:41,935 --> 01:02:44,565 me myself I'm very cynical about it 953 01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:49,500 When I last saw you at twenty-one you were nervous, chain-smoking, uptight 954 01:02:49,535 --> 01:02:51,965 and now you seem happy 955 01:02:52,000 --> 01:02:55,900 what's happened to you over these last seven years? 956 01:02:55,935 --> 01:02:58,465 Well I suppose Rupert 957 01:02:58,500 --> 01:03:01,300 - I'll give you some credit - Thank you! 958 01:03:01,335 --> 01:03:04,600 I'm not a chain-smoking person 959 01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,600 I think, you can't just walk through a marriage 960 01:03:09,700 --> 01:03:14,300 and think once you get married it's all going to be roses and everything forever 961 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:16,600 y'know you have... 962 01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:20,565 well everybody has their rows, but 963 01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:24,565 we've never yet had a row that we haven't managed to sort out 964 01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:29,600 it's very hard to actually say what it is that goes on between a couple 965 01:03:29,635 --> 01:03:32,800 it's either there or it's not 966 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:36,465 We've been married twenty-seven years now 967 01:03:36,500 --> 01:03:42,065 any marriage has its ups and downs but somehow 968 01:03:42,100 --> 01:03:48,300 whether through luck or determination we've worked through the difficult times 969 01:03:50,500 --> 01:03:54,200 he's just always been there for me, and... 970 01:03:55,100 --> 01:03:58,365 I know I can rely on him and... 971 01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,900 he's my punch-bag in the same way I'm probably his 972 01:04:02,935 --> 01:04:04,165 but it works 973 01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:06,965 When I get married I'd like to have two children 974 01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:12,900 I'm not very children minded at the moment and I don't know if I ever will be 975 01:04:13,900 --> 01:04:17,800 - What do you think about them? - well, I don't like babies 976 01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:24,500 At twenty-eight, Suzi had two sons, Thomas and Oliver 977 01:04:25,100 --> 01:04:29,900 by the time she was thirty-five, Suzi had a daughter, Laura 978 01:04:30,300 --> 01:04:33,200 - Mummy - Yeah? - Laura wants you 979 01:04:33,300 --> 01:04:36,200 So what are the children up to? 980 01:04:36,235 --> 01:04:37,500 They are... 981 01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:42,500 Tom is living in London having graduated and now working and living in London 982 01:04:42,700 --> 01:04:46,750 Olly is working and living at home 983 01:04:46,785 --> 01:04:50,765 and Laura is doing her AS exams 984 01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:54,900 it was difficult when they first started to move away 985 01:04:54,935 --> 01:04:57,665 all those memories of the children growing up 986 01:04:57,700 --> 01:05:03,100 it's like a closed chapter now as you can't bring those days back 987 01:05:05,500 --> 01:05:09,700 what I admire about the young today is their confidence 988 01:05:09,735 --> 01:05:11,965 and that's what I wished I'd had 989 01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:18,000 they just seem to take life and deal with it 990 01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:23,400 What sort of things do you do? 991 01:05:23,435 --> 01:05:26,600 Ride, swim, play tennis, ping-pong 992 01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:29,400 and I might play croquet 993 01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,800 something like that 994 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:36,600 I did have a privileged childhood 995 01:05:37,100 --> 01:05:42,800 but you have to take responsibility for your life somewhere along the line 996 01:05:42,835 --> 01:05:45,900 and some people take responsibility earlier than others 997 01:05:45,935 --> 01:05:48,900 I was just a bit later in taking it 998 01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:55,865 maybe now is the first time that... 999 01:05:55,900 --> 01:06:02,300 I actually feel happy within my own skin, it's taken me a long time to do it 1000 01:06:02,335 --> 01:06:10,200 but I feel that I can accept wrong decisions that I've made in the past 1001 01:06:10,235 --> 01:06:13,800 I'm comfortable with it now, I can live with it 1002 01:06:14,700 --> 01:06:18,900 So what's it been like for you being in these films? 1003 01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,300 Very difficult very painful 1004 01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:28,700 not an experience I've enjoyed in any way 1005 01:06:28,735 --> 01:06:32,200 every seven years it throws up issues that... 1006 01:06:32,235 --> 01:06:37,200 we all learn to put into compartments 1007 01:06:37,300 --> 01:06:41,400 and then it all gets opened up again and it's difficult 1008 01:06:43,700 --> 01:06:50,000 we were all landed in it and most of us for whatever reason have chosen to do it 1009 01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:55,800 I'm not an outgoing confident person 1010 01:06:56,300 --> 01:06:59,465 I like my privacy, I don't like... 1011 01:06:59,500 --> 01:07:05,100 however many million people picking over my life 1012 01:07:06,700 --> 01:07:09,700 and is that what they do, you think? 1013 01:07:10,500 --> 01:07:15,600 I think for a couple of minutes, yes, then it's yesterdays news 1014 01:07:17,000 --> 01:07:22,100 and people seem to read into what they think we all think 1015 01:07:22,135 --> 01:07:25,165 which I find very hurtful 1016 01:07:25,200 --> 01:07:31,000 as most of them come up with things that are not like what's going on in my head 1017 01:07:31,100 --> 01:07:33,400 I think she might be alright 1018 01:07:34,500 --> 01:07:38,065 What's the point of people going into peoples lives and saying 1019 01:07:38,100 --> 01:07:41,000 "Why do you like this and why don't you?" I don't see any point in it 1020 01:07:41,035 --> 01:07:43,500 So have you had enough of being in the film? 1021 01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:49,500 who knows in seven years whether it will be done again but... 1022 01:07:49,535 --> 01:07:52,800 this is me saying 1023 01:07:52,900 --> 01:08:00,000 hopefully I'll reach my half century next year and I shall bow out 1024 01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:07,400 When I grow up I'd like to find out all about the moon and all that 1025 01:08:07,435 --> 01:08:11,700 Nick, a farmer's son, grew up in the Yorkshire dales 1026 01:08:11,800 --> 01:08:15,900 I said I was interested in physics and chemistry, well I'm not going to do that here 1027 01:08:15,935 --> 01:08:18,500 at fourteen he was away boarding school 1028 01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:20,950 and at twenty-one reading physics at Oxford 1029 01:08:20,985 --> 01:08:23,300 So what career are you going to pursue? 1030 01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:28,100 It depends whether I'll be good enough to do what I want to really do 1031 01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:33,300 I would like if I can to do research 1032 01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,400 By twenty-eight he had moved to America 1033 01:08:36,500 --> 01:08:41,100 and was doing nuclear research at the University of Wisconsin 1034 01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:45,100 The fusion reaction gives off energy and produces the power that would 1035 01:08:45,135 --> 01:08:49,600 be turned into electrical energy and sent out to the consumer 1036 01:08:49,700 --> 01:08:53,900 - How hot is it in there? - In there, it's about ten million degrees 1037 01:08:53,935 --> 01:08:57,800 at thirty-five he was an associate professor 1038 01:08:57,835 --> 01:09:00,600 and at forty-two, a full professor 1039 01:09:02,100 --> 01:09:06,100 and I've spent the last year and a half writing a couple of books 1040 01:09:06,200 --> 01:09:10,700 my ambition is to be more famous for doing science than for being in this film 1041 01:09:10,735 --> 01:09:13,600 but unfortunately it's not going to happen! 1042 01:09:14,300 --> 01:09:17,150 Over the years, Nick's research hit trouble 1043 01:09:17,185 --> 01:09:20,000 and by forty-nine he's had to abandon it 1044 01:09:20,100 --> 01:09:24,100 because the containers needed to store the hot gases couldn't be developed 1045 01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:29,600 Was there a moment when you realised all you'd been doing wasn't going to work? 1046 01:09:30,400 --> 01:09:36,100 I think it was more gradual, I didn't want to admit it for quite a while 1047 01:09:36,135 --> 01:09:41,117 I really believed in it, it was a huge let down 1048 01:09:41,152 --> 01:09:46,100 so the area that I'm looking at is this times this 1049 01:09:46,900 --> 01:09:51,600 I don't know why I have a compulsion to teach, it was always there in me 1050 01:09:51,635 --> 01:09:55,100 I just wanted to do it, I thought I'd be good at it 1051 01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,600 when I go into a classroom I try to explain to them... 1052 01:09:58,700 --> 01:10:03,100 why they might want to do it, that's my attempt to open a door for them 1053 01:10:03,135 --> 01:10:06,500 so I'm hoping you will remember me being very stupid and saying... 1054 01:10:06,535 --> 01:10:10,200 "Ow, there's arrows coming out of here" can we do that? 1055 01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,500 they can get information from a book 1056 01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:17,400 I have to make the information more interesting than a book 1057 01:10:17,435 --> 01:10:20,600 I'm doomed to do this over and over and over... 1058 01:10:24,500 --> 01:10:27,600 and nobody's ever said that I was a typical engineer 1059 01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:34,000 the under-graduates tell jokes about engineer's, the only one I can repeat is 1060 01:10:34,035 --> 01:10:37,300 How can you tell if an engineer is an extrovert? 1061 01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:41,600 and the answer is - He looks at YOUR shoes when he's talking to you 1062 01:10:43,500 --> 01:10:49,900 somebody had a theory that scientists and mathematicians are almost autistic 1063 01:10:50,700 --> 01:10:54,000 I could easily be borderline autistic! 1064 01:10:54,100 --> 01:10:58,600 I don't quite understand how other people feel about things at times 1065 01:10:58,635 --> 01:11:01,200 Do you have a girl friend? 1066 01:11:02,900 --> 01:11:05,900 I don't want to answer that 1067 01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,700 I don't want to answer those kind of questions 1068 01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,600 I thought that one would come up because when I was... 1069 01:11:14,900 --> 01:11:17,100 when I was doing the other one somebody said 1070 01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:20,400 "what do you think about girls?" and I said "I don't answer questions like that 1071 01:11:20,435 --> 01:11:24,200 is that the reason you're asking it? yeah I thought so 1072 01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:31,100 the best answer would be to say that I don't answer questions like that 1073 01:11:31,500 --> 01:11:35,800 it was what I said when I was seven and it's still the most sensible 1074 01:11:35,835 --> 01:11:37,700 but I mean, what about them? 1075 01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,800 Nick was only seventeen when I first met him 1076 01:11:40,835 --> 01:11:43,900 If you've been somebody who... 1077 01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:48,300 who had fixed ideas of a woman's role in marriage that meant... 1078 01:11:48,335 --> 01:11:51,200 dinner on the table at six every evening 1079 01:11:51,235 --> 01:11:53,600 Didn't I tell you about that? 1080 01:11:53,700 --> 01:11:59,000 His wife Jackie also taught at the university and they had a son, Adam 1081 01:11:59,035 --> 01:12:02,967 six years ago they divorced 1082 01:12:03,002 --> 01:12:06,900 Well it was incredibly hard 1083 01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:11,500 what I concluded, and I've talked to other people who have gone through it 1084 01:12:11,535 --> 01:12:16,000 I'm not sure if they feel it as strongly as I did but it was like a death 1085 01:12:16,035 --> 01:12:19,100 Anything could happen, we could easily drift apart 1086 01:12:19,135 --> 01:12:21,200 there are so many pressures on people 1087 01:12:21,300 --> 01:12:26,300 If your spouse died you could look back and say "it was wonderful while it lasted" 1088 01:12:26,335 --> 01:12:31,000 but in a divorce you can't look back and say... 1089 01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:34,300 "these are all happy memories" 1090 01:12:34,335 --> 01:12:36,900 it wasn't my decision 1091 01:12:37,100 --> 01:12:41,100 she went to England, her father was ill 1092 01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:45,500 by the time she'd landed he'd died and when she came back... 1093 01:12:45,535 --> 01:12:48,700 it was like a different person came back 1094 01:12:49,300 --> 01:12:51,500 was I responsible? 1095 01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:53,800 I could've been braver about some things 1096 01:12:53,900 --> 01:12:57,000 but if I'd been braver it might've ended sooner 1097 01:12:57,100 --> 01:13:01,500 you can talk to me by myself outside but I'll just meet you by the garage, ok? 1098 01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,000 - Alright - Alright bye 1099 01:13:04,100 --> 01:13:07,900 It's enormously hard to deal with, the worst part of it was... 1100 01:13:07,935 --> 01:13:11,400 seeing how it would affect my son 1101 01:13:11,435 --> 01:13:14,300 - How old was he? - Ten 1102 01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:21,200 when he was first told he was terribly, terribly upset 1103 01:13:21,300 --> 01:13:28,200 then he just pulled himself together and didn't want to talk about it anymore 1104 01:13:28,900 --> 01:13:31,600 he's made the most of it, I mean the best of it 1105 01:13:31,635 --> 01:13:34,500 made the best that he can of it 1106 01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:37,500 take it easy Adam, the main thing is not to crash 1107 01:13:37,535 --> 01:13:40,400 - Really? You don't like me crashing? - No! 1108 01:13:40,500 --> 01:13:45,400 - How does he deal with it now? - He doesn't talk to me about it much... 1109 01:13:45,435 --> 01:13:48,600 at all, he's a private person 1110 01:13:48,700 --> 01:13:53,200 it's very, very hard for me to be... 1111 01:13:53,300 --> 01:13:58,100 spending a large part of my time with him not around 1112 01:14:00,900 --> 01:14:01,900 Hey Graham 1113 01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,700 what you doing? 1114 01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:10,100 I had to go to a graduation, one of my students was getting his PHD 1115 01:14:10,135 --> 01:14:12,500 and he insisted I go there with him 1116 01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:16,700 and I looked around and the person behind me was Chris 1117 01:14:16,735 --> 01:14:19,400 Hey Graham 1118 01:14:20,100 --> 01:14:22,700 who is my new wife 1119 01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:24,300 are you ok? 1120 01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:28,200 - Did you fall in love quickly? - Immediately 1121 01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:32,700 Except you decided that if I couldn't find you I had failed the test 1122 01:14:32,735 --> 01:14:36,700 I decided it was his work to find me 1123 01:14:37,800 --> 01:14:40,200 we did shake hands at the end of graduation 1124 01:14:40,300 --> 01:14:43,100 stood up and said who we were but he immediately forgot 1125 01:14:43,135 --> 01:14:44,700 he couldn't remember 1126 01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:49,200 "ok I know who she is so I don't have to worry about that anymore" so I forgot! 1127 01:14:50,600 --> 01:14:53,000 I do! that's very me 1128 01:14:53,200 --> 01:14:59,700 she came down to the school to meet me and I barely knew what she looked like 1129 01:15:00,300 --> 01:15:04,900 I looked at her and thought "I guess that's her" and I looked and did this 1130 01:15:04,935 --> 01:15:09,100 and she did a mirror image of that gesture and I thought... 1131 01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:15,400 I can't explain but I felt very strongly drawn to her by that little gesture 1132 01:15:15,900 --> 01:15:22,000 and there was no way I would say no to being married to this man 1133 01:15:22,035 --> 01:15:24,600 I wanted to be with him 1134 01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:28,200 has he changed my life? dramatically 1135 01:15:28,235 --> 01:15:31,600 have I changed as a person? I hope so 1136 01:15:33,300 --> 01:15:38,800 I don't mean to be superficial but she's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen 1137 01:15:38,835 --> 01:15:42,900 - Is he sexy? - Hell yes! 1138 01:15:43,900 --> 01:15:46,400 absolutely 1139 01:15:48,500 --> 01:15:51,900 didn't you have fun with that one? 1140 01:15:53,800 --> 01:15:57,500 I only have one child, Courtney and he only has one child 1141 01:15:57,535 --> 01:16:01,300 there's a symmetry with that 1142 01:16:02,100 --> 01:16:06,700 Would you ever have wanted a child together? 1143 01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:12,900 well absolutely but it's not exactly practical 1144 01:16:12,935 --> 01:16:15,200 - So we're just... - No... 1145 01:16:15,500 --> 01:16:19,600 and Graham's added an element that's just joy 1146 01:16:19,700 --> 01:16:24,700 and I know Nick likes little guys, he just likes little kids 1147 01:16:24,735 --> 01:16:29,000 they'd like to come out for a holiday in the country 1148 01:16:29,035 --> 01:16:32,900 when I'd like to have a holiday in the town 1149 01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,500 it is very difficult being in a place where you're... 1150 01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:41,900 far way from all your background and you don't have any support network 1151 01:16:44,700 --> 01:16:49,900 my parents are alive, they've both had very significant health issues 1152 01:16:49,935 --> 01:16:54,100 my father keeps pointing out that old age isn't for sissy's 1153 01:16:54,135 --> 01:16:57,000 you need a secretary 1154 01:16:57,800 --> 01:17:02,900 Nick has two younger brothers back in England, Andrew and Christopher 1155 01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,600 Christopher, the deaf one got divorced and he said to my mother... 1156 01:17:08,635 --> 01:17:10,900 "that if Nicky could do it then so could I" 1157 01:17:10,935 --> 01:17:13,400 so that changed 1158 01:17:14,700 --> 01:17:16,850 Are you missing England? 1159 01:17:16,885 --> 01:17:19,000 I always miss England 1160 01:17:19,100 --> 01:17:25,000 I was really not the sort of person who should ever have moved very far 1161 01:17:25,300 --> 01:17:30,300 When he was forty-two we took Nick back to where he grew up in the Dales 1162 01:17:30,335 --> 01:17:33,400 What did you learn here that you've carried with you? 1163 01:17:33,500 --> 01:17:36,850 I feel as if you could look deep somewhere inside me 1164 01:17:36,885 --> 01:17:40,200 I feel like there's some of this in me somewhere 1165 01:17:40,300 --> 01:17:45,100 I think of it as being magnificent but rather grim really 1166 01:17:45,135 --> 01:17:49,900 it's very uncompromising and sometimes it's rather tragic 1167 01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:55,300 but it makes other places you go seem rather trivial as well 1168 01:17:55,335 --> 01:17:58,800 We call it one of our Dales rooms 1169 01:18:00,100 --> 01:18:05,900 we have things that reflect the Dales, we have cards that we've framed and... 1170 01:18:05,935 --> 01:18:11,500 some of the china from Nick's family is displayed up here 1171 01:18:15,600 --> 01:18:19,100 well we're driving from Madison to Minneapolis 1172 01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:23,300 as Chris lives in Minneapolis and I live in Madison so... 1173 01:18:23,335 --> 01:18:26,700 we go up and down alternate weekends 1174 01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:33,200 does it put stress on the relationship, these separations and re-uniting? 1175 01:18:33,235 --> 01:18:38,900 I would say absence makes the heart grow fonder really 1176 01:18:39,700 --> 01:18:43,500 Chris lives in Minneapolis, a five hour drive from Madison 1177 01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:47,600 where she's an associate professor in the department of education 1178 01:18:48,500 --> 01:18:51,300 Hey, want to see something? 1179 01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:55,200 - Work's a big part of both of your lives? - It is - Yes 1180 01:18:55,235 --> 01:18:59,100 So we're both workaholics 1181 01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,800 Is there anything in him you would like to change? 1182 01:19:03,500 --> 01:19:06,600 Well that would be a really risky business wouldn't it 1183 01:19:06,635 --> 01:19:09,800 I thought you had changed... if... no? 1184 01:19:12,500 --> 01:19:16,700 Y'know, you don't mess with mother nature 1185 01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:21,100 in terms of little things like how someone does their toothpaste 1186 01:19:21,135 --> 01:19:22,700 those silly nonsense things 1187 01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:27,400 he would not just say yes, he immediately attended to it 1188 01:19:27,500 --> 01:19:32,100 I'd never been with anyone who did so I have to be careful what I ask him to do 1189 01:19:32,135 --> 01:19:34,800 Oh go easy on the butter please, alright 1190 01:19:34,835 --> 01:19:36,100 okay 1191 01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:39,800 I could see it being a slippery slope 1192 01:19:39,900 --> 01:19:43,600 I didn't want to go that way in terms of my... 1193 01:19:43,700 --> 01:19:46,500 - ordering his life - She didn't want to make too many demands 1194 01:19:46,535 --> 01:19:48,800 I didn't want him to be a different person 1195 01:19:48,900 --> 01:19:52,900 If I could change the world, I'd change it into a diamond 1196 01:19:52,935 --> 01:19:56,000 I think this film is extremely important 1197 01:19:56,100 --> 01:19:59,900 it's important to me but it seems to be important to other people as well 1198 01:19:59,935 --> 01:20:02,900 that doesn't make it an easy thing 1199 01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:05,900 it's an incredibly hard thing to be in 1200 01:20:06,000 --> 01:20:12,000 and I can't even begin to describe how emotionally draining and wrenching it is 1201 01:20:12,035 --> 01:20:14,800 just to make the film and to do the interviews 1202 01:20:14,900 --> 01:20:20,500 and that's even when I'm pretending that nobody else is watching it 1203 01:20:21,700 --> 01:20:27,700 I think it's a heavy reminder that he's missing his roots 1204 01:20:27,735 --> 01:20:29,900 there's an awful lot of emotions... 1205 01:20:30,000 --> 01:20:34,800 attached to having a scrap book that's as vivid as this 1206 01:20:36,700 --> 01:20:39,500 I'm going to work in Woolworths 1207 01:20:40,500 --> 01:20:43,000 Lynn is the third of our Eastend girls 1208 01:20:43,100 --> 01:20:45,800 she went to primary school with Jackie and Sue 1209 01:20:45,835 --> 01:20:48,000 but chose to go onto a grammar school 1210 01:20:48,100 --> 01:20:52,600 at twenty-one, she set out on a career as children's librarian 1211 01:20:52,635 --> 01:20:55,400 in a mobile library in East London 1212 01:20:55,435 --> 01:20:57,200 - Have I stamped yours? - Yes 1213 01:20:57,235 --> 01:20:58,900 I've not stamped yours 1214 01:20:58,935 --> 01:21:00,800 Sleeping Beauty 1215 01:21:00,900 --> 01:21:04,800 Teaching children the beauty of books 1216 01:21:04,900 --> 01:21:09,500 and watching their faces as books unfold for them 1217 01:21:09,535 --> 01:21:10,900 is just fantastic 1218 01:21:11,000 --> 01:21:13,500 to work with children of that age you've got to love them 1219 01:21:13,535 --> 01:21:15,400 and I love children 1220 01:21:16,800 --> 01:21:21,500 Because of cuts in the education budget the mobile library was shut down 1221 01:21:21,535 --> 01:21:25,800 at forty-two, Lynne was working at Bethnall Green library 1222 01:21:26,100 --> 01:21:28,400 you can draw, better than I can 1223 01:21:31,100 --> 01:21:33,550 At forty-nine, she's still there 1224 01:21:33,585 --> 01:21:36,000 Good morning, well what about you? 1225 01:21:36,100 --> 01:21:39,800 good morning, are you going to say hello? 1226 01:21:39,900 --> 01:21:43,850 How much of your work is with people like this? 1227 01:21:43,885 --> 01:21:47,800 Probably five percent, it's a very small part of it 1228 01:21:48,000 --> 01:21:51,850 but probably, currently the most challenging part of it 1229 01:21:51,885 --> 01:21:55,700 - Elephant? - He's an elephant, where's the elephant? 1230 01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:02,800 We still get six other schools regularly send classes in here 1231 01:22:02,835 --> 01:22:04,900 it's busy most days 1232 01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:09,200 Well I know he loves her and he loves her 1233 01:22:09,235 --> 01:22:11,200 I don't I love him 1234 01:22:11,300 --> 01:22:13,600 I've been married a year and... 1235 01:22:13,635 --> 01:22:16,100 a couple of months 1236 01:22:16,200 --> 01:22:19,600 you do think "christ, what have I done?" 1237 01:22:21,500 --> 01:22:24,300 When she was nineteen she married Russ 1238 01:22:24,400 --> 01:22:31,000 We married young but because we wanted to go out and have fun together 1239 01:22:32,900 --> 01:22:37,700 thirty years and we're still together, he's my soul mate, he's my partner 1240 01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:41,100 we respect each other 1241 01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:45,100 hence, he is not here and you will not see him on this film 1242 01:22:45,135 --> 01:22:49,100 because he has always felt that the... 1243 01:22:49,200 --> 01:22:54,800 intrusion into our private life that this causes is too much 1244 01:22:54,835 --> 01:22:59,000 I wanted, white wedding, all trimmings 1245 01:23:00,300 --> 01:23:04,600 Russ would've been satisfied with very little 1246 01:23:04,635 --> 01:23:07,200 Are you in love? 1247 01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:10,800 very, very much 1248 01:23:12,300 --> 01:23:17,500 he knows how much I love him and in my heart I know how much he loves me 1249 01:23:17,535 --> 01:23:20,500 I put him on the spot sometimes 1250 01:23:20,600 --> 01:23:24,700 if I could I would have two girls and two boys 1251 01:23:24,735 --> 01:23:26,900 Yeah so would I 1252 01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:33,000 Lynne and Russ have two daughters, Sara and Emma 1253 01:23:37,200 --> 01:23:41,900 Emma's an installation co-ordinator for the company 1254 01:23:41,935 --> 01:23:44,617 Sara is an accessories buyer 1255 01:23:44,652 --> 01:23:47,300 it's a family run business 1256 01:23:49,500 --> 01:23:53,400 At forty-two the girls were both doing very well at school 1257 01:23:53,435 --> 01:23:54,800 - Alright darling? - Yeah 1258 01:23:54,900 --> 01:23:58,150 - Neither of the girls went to university? - No 1259 01:23:58,185 --> 01:24:01,400 - Was that disappointing to you? - No, their choice 1260 01:24:01,435 --> 01:24:05,100 we discussed it, it's what they wanted to do 1261 01:24:05,200 --> 01:24:08,900 they felt that the academic side wasn't for them 1262 01:24:09,900 --> 01:24:13,650 you have to accept that it's their lives 1263 01:24:13,685 --> 01:24:17,400 and you can only guide and be there for them 1264 01:24:17,435 --> 01:24:20,500 - Oh you big boy - Where's your drink 1265 01:24:20,600 --> 01:24:24,900 - So you've got a grandson? - He's a lovely lad, he really is 1266 01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:29,500 I'm watching him in the same way from... 1267 01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:34,100 twenty-one years ago when I held Sara up, when she was just born 1268 01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,100 and now I'm watching Emma, and what goes around comes around 1269 01:24:38,200 --> 01:24:44,800 as Emma now says that she says things to Connor that she heard me saying to her 1270 01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:53,100 that still catches me out when I hear me say something that was purely my mum 1271 01:24:54,100 --> 01:24:58,000 So was the arrival of Connor a shock to you? 1272 01:24:58,035 --> 01:25:01,300 No! well yeah! but... 1273 01:25:02,300 --> 01:25:05,800 as soon as Emma was expecting Connor 1274 01:25:05,900 --> 01:25:09,100 I got the phone call "mum I need to meet you" 1275 01:25:09,700 --> 01:25:14,700 so she told me face to face that she was expecting, fine 1276 01:25:16,300 --> 01:25:20,200 she was nineteen, she's old enough 1277 01:25:23,500 --> 01:25:27,000 when she was thirty-five, Lynne was having health problems 1278 01:25:27,035 --> 01:25:29,800 they stuck all these tubes up inside me 1279 01:25:29,900 --> 01:25:32,700 and discovered that I've got these veins 1280 01:25:32,735 --> 01:25:35,300 up here, that shouldn't be there 1281 01:25:35,335 --> 01:25:37,500 - In your brain? - Yes 1282 01:25:38,300 --> 01:25:42,100 - And what can they do about it? - Not a lot at the moment 1283 01:25:42,135 --> 01:25:44,300 No change 1284 01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:50,000 it's not going away but it's no more problems, nothing... 1285 01:25:50,035 --> 01:25:54,900 you have the aches and pains of getting older 1286 01:25:57,000 --> 01:26:00,700 I've got bi-lateral carpal tunnel syndrome in both my wrists 1287 01:26:00,735 --> 01:26:03,500 guess who had it? my mother! 1288 01:26:04,900 --> 01:26:10,500 but it comes and go hence the magnetic bracelets which help 1289 01:26:11,700 --> 01:26:14,900 but you have to overcome it 1290 01:26:14,935 --> 01:26:16,400 - What's white? - Red 1291 01:26:16,500 --> 01:26:17,900 Yeah we know that's red 1292 01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:22,000 for the last thirty years I've been banging my head against a brick wall... 1293 01:26:22,035 --> 01:26:26,900 to maintain children's services but this time no ones listening 1294 01:26:26,935 --> 01:26:29,300 we've just done purple 1295 01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:35,100 they say that the work that I do, that anybody can do it 1296 01:26:35,135 --> 01:26:36,500 - Blue - Blue 1297 01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:40,400 there would be no specialist running it 1298 01:26:40,435 --> 01:26:41,700 one 1299 01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:44,700 I may not have a job 1300 01:26:44,900 --> 01:26:49,400 - Hern loves Tintin - Hern absolutely adores Tintin 1301 01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:52,800 It's cost cutting 1302 01:26:53,700 --> 01:26:56,000 - So that's what it's about? - Yes 1303 01:26:56,900 --> 01:26:59,300 they would deny that 1304 01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:02,300 are you going to speak to me today? 1305 01:27:02,335 --> 01:27:04,100 - No? - No? 1306 01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:05,900 lets hear you! 1307 01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:10,500 - Is it emotionally very demanding working with people like this? - Yes 1308 01:27:10,900 --> 01:27:14,800 but it's so fulfilling 1309 01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:18,800 that it... beyond belief 1310 01:27:18,900 --> 01:27:22,400 Azir, can you say it for me? I know you can 1311 01:27:22,435 --> 01:27:25,200 but are you... no! 1312 01:27:26,000 --> 01:27:28,800 you're not going to do it today 1313 01:27:29,300 --> 01:27:32,600 Azir spoke to me on the phone a couple of years ago 1314 01:27:32,635 --> 01:27:34,600 the first time he had ever spoken to me 1315 01:27:34,635 --> 01:27:36,500 and it really got me 1316 01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:39,400 it's extremely difficult for him to speak... 1317 01:27:39,500 --> 01:27:42,400 and when he does you know he's making so much effort 1318 01:27:42,435 --> 01:27:44,600 and it gets me 1319 01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:48,600 excellent 1320 01:27:48,700 --> 01:27:51,500 - Well done Azir - Thank you Azir 1321 01:27:54,300 --> 01:28:00,700 - Come a long way since the back of a van - I was on the back of a bus yesterday! 1322 01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:06,600 we took a bus out to a school that was having a book week just around the corner 1323 01:28:06,635 --> 01:28:08,300 and... 1324 01:28:08,700 --> 01:28:11,600 I had forgotten how much it sways 1325 01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:13,500 where's your stamp? 1326 01:28:13,600 --> 01:28:17,700 - It's been a hell of a commitment for you hasn't it? - Yeah but... 1327 01:28:21,500 --> 01:28:24,200 but it will end 1328 01:28:24,300 --> 01:28:28,600 - Has it been worth it all? - Yes very much 1329 01:28:31,700 --> 01:28:33,000 Come on, speed it up 1330 01:28:33,100 --> 01:28:38,800 all these things that I have said over the years are flying through my mind now 1331 01:28:38,835 --> 01:28:42,000 but yes, it has been worth it 1332 01:28:44,600 --> 01:28:49,100 and you better cut it 'cause otherwise I'm going to cry 1333 01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:00,000 What do you think about rich people? 1334 01:29:00,035 --> 01:29:04,100 Well... not much 1335 01:29:04,300 --> 01:29:05,300 Tell me about them 1336 01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:09,600 Well they think they can do everything without you doing it as well 1337 01:29:11,600 --> 01:29:14,300 Simon was brought up in a children's home 1338 01:29:14,335 --> 01:29:17,000 the only child of a single parent 1339 01:29:17,100 --> 01:29:19,700 Rich people have all different things 1340 01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:23,600 they have everything they want whereas poor people don't have anything 1341 01:29:23,700 --> 01:29:29,100 and they know they haven't got anything so they know they're missing something 1342 01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:32,800 What are you missing? 1343 01:29:32,900 --> 01:29:36,500 Well I'd probably say a bike and... 1344 01:29:36,900 --> 01:29:39,250 a fishing rod 1345 01:29:39,285 --> 01:29:41,600 Twenty years ago 1346 01:29:42,900 --> 01:29:44,700 when I was born 1347 01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:46,800 an illegitimate child 1348 01:29:47,700 --> 01:29:50,950 that's something that's only whispered about 1349 01:29:50,985 --> 01:29:54,200 people feel strongly about it in those days 1350 01:29:54,235 --> 01:29:56,400 but nowadays it's.. 1351 01:29:58,100 --> 01:29:59,700 it's not a serious matter 1352 01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:03,400 the serious point is whether you stay with someone or you leave them 1353 01:30:03,435 --> 01:30:06,400 since twenty-one 1354 01:30:06,500 --> 01:30:10,500 I've got married, had a couple of kids 1355 01:30:12,500 --> 01:30:16,900 By twenty-eight he had married Yvonne and they had five children 1356 01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:20,500 well I don't think there's anybody else I could've ever married except Yvonne 1357 01:30:20,535 --> 01:30:22,800 she gives me my life really because 1358 01:30:22,900 --> 01:30:25,700 we're together, we have the children and everything 1359 01:30:26,900 --> 01:30:29,700 By thirty-five they were divorced 1360 01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:37,300 at forty-two he had married Vienetta 1361 01:30:38,900 --> 01:30:42,800 we used to go out when we were younger, we met in the laundrette 1362 01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:46,000 - Once a week! - Once a week in the laundrette! 1363 01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:53,600 One stage we went to a marriage guidance 'cause the... 1364 01:30:53,700 --> 01:30:59,900 pressures of being together were getting to us as we are two very different people 1365 01:31:01,100 --> 01:31:05,100 I'm very laid back 1366 01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:10,300 as she always says, if I go any further back I'll fall over! 1367 01:31:11,700 --> 01:31:17,400 when two people are together after both having separate lives it is hard 1368 01:31:17,435 --> 01:31:21,900 silly things like leaving the toilet seat up 1369 01:31:22,000 --> 01:31:25,800 or if I put something here I expect to see it here and Simon can be very untidy 1370 01:31:25,835 --> 01:31:28,800 he'll take everything of and fling it around the house 1371 01:31:28,835 --> 01:31:31,700 - Sorry dear - I don't want it all mixed up 1372 01:31:32,600 --> 01:31:34,500 Is he romantic? 1373 01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:38,700 If we've had an argument and he doesn't know, as I will shout and he'll think... 1374 01:31:38,735 --> 01:31:40,400 "what have I done?" 1375 01:31:40,500 --> 01:31:44,800 and I'll be here, like now, and I'll see some flowers 1376 01:31:44,835 --> 01:31:47,000 and a bottle of wine or something 1377 01:31:47,100 --> 01:31:51,700 and he'll say "I don't know what I've done but I'm sorry" 1378 01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:55,050 Vienetta already had a daughter, Miriam 1379 01:31:55,085 --> 01:31:57,700 and she and Simon have a son, Daniel 1380 01:32:01,900 --> 01:32:04,000 Is there anything of you in him? 1381 01:32:04,100 --> 01:32:10,000 his dashing good looks, that's me! and his love of sport as well 1382 01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:15,300 he goes to school in Slough as that's where they do grammar schools 1383 01:32:15,335 --> 01:32:17,700 he's doing very well there 1384 01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:20,400 They say "Where's your father then?" 1385 01:32:20,500 --> 01:32:24,000 y'know when your mums out at work "Where's your father?" 1386 01:32:24,035 --> 01:32:27,000 and I just tell them I ain't got one 1387 01:32:27,600 --> 01:32:29,200 they've got everything then 1388 01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:31,800 they've even got what I never had 1389 01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:35,300 - Which is what? - A father isn't it! 1390 01:32:35,335 --> 01:32:37,300 so they've had everything 1391 01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:40,800 at one stage they all stopped seeing me at all 1392 01:32:40,835 --> 01:32:44,400 but now, a bit older, a bit wiser... 1393 01:32:45,100 --> 01:32:50,500 and I'm a bit older and wiser and now three of them see me 1394 01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:56,100 Jessica has been very busy, she's got her work and college 1395 01:32:56,135 --> 01:33:00,400 - Who do you support? - Man united - So your lot came second? 1396 01:33:00,500 --> 01:33:05,700 Jonathon's been in a transitional period with changing jobs and... 1397 01:33:05,735 --> 01:33:08,200 building up his new life 1398 01:33:08,300 --> 01:33:14,200 the two that don't see me, I can't really see their point of view 1399 01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:17,500 So what's it like being a grandfather? 1400 01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:22,900 It's bloody easy actually! you can see them all day long and then they go back 1401 01:33:22,935 --> 01:33:25,900 - and you've got one? - Two actually 1402 01:33:26,100 --> 01:33:28,000 one that I see 1403 01:33:28,100 --> 01:33:33,050 and one that I would only see if I kept going round to see him 1404 01:33:33,085 --> 01:33:38,000 otherwise I wouldn't see him so I'm waiting for a return visit now 1405 01:33:39,100 --> 01:33:43,300 before I'm old enough to get a job 1406 01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:47,500 I'll just walk around and see what I can find 1407 01:33:47,535 --> 01:33:50,400 I was going to be a film star, but 1408 01:33:51,500 --> 01:33:56,900 now I'm going to be an electrical engineer which is more to reality really 1409 01:33:57,300 --> 01:34:02,900 By twenty-one Simon was working in the freezer room of Walls sausages in London 1410 01:34:02,935 --> 01:34:06,600 I know I can't stay at Walls forever, it's just not me 1411 01:34:06,700 --> 01:34:10,400 I couldn't stay there for that long, my mind would go dead 1412 01:34:10,435 --> 01:34:13,300 I'm quite happy to stay there 1413 01:34:13,400 --> 01:34:16,700 it doesn't look like it's going to close down, so I mean... 1414 01:34:17,400 --> 01:34:19,650 better the devil you know isn't it 1415 01:34:19,685 --> 01:34:21,900 Walls did close the factory down 1416 01:34:22,000 --> 01:34:26,100 since then he has worked near Heathrow airport handling freight 1417 01:34:27,500 --> 01:34:32,600 the only reason I went there was to work near to where my son went to school 1418 01:34:32,635 --> 01:34:34,800 so I could take him there 1419 01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:41,050 Do you feel you could've done more with a career with your work? 1420 01:34:41,085 --> 01:34:46,100 If I'd pushed myself at school probably I could've done a lot better 1421 01:34:46,300 --> 01:34:49,600 Does that give you pause for thought? 1422 01:34:49,900 --> 01:34:53,800 No that means I was a lazy sod when I was younger 1423 01:34:54,300 --> 01:34:58,600 somebody said "you don't live to work, you work to live" 1424 01:34:58,635 --> 01:35:00,600 and that's how it should be 1425 01:35:03,800 --> 01:35:09,350 A couple of years ago Simon and Vienetta decided to train as foster parents 1426 01:35:09,385 --> 01:35:14,900 I went to boarding school when I was young and I felt that was regimental 1427 01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:20,500 they didn't allow for personal cares, for loving from the adult carers 1428 01:35:20,535 --> 01:35:25,200 so I wanted to do something like that in my own home 1429 01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:28,400 and we always say to foster carers 1430 01:35:28,500 --> 01:35:31,800 "please do not cut the children's hair without the permission of the parents" 1431 01:35:31,835 --> 01:35:35,200 What's the toughest thing about being a foster parent? 1432 01:35:35,300 --> 01:35:41,700 You're taking a chance when you do it as you really don't know what you're getting 1433 01:35:42,900 --> 01:35:48,400 one child had two knives in her hand as she didn't want to stay in this country 1434 01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:51,300 - Two knives in her hand! - Did she threaten you? 1435 01:35:51,335 --> 01:35:53,600 No she was just a threat to herself 1436 01:35:53,700 --> 01:35:57,600 some of them come back, they phone you up and say "hello auntie and uncle" 1437 01:35:57,635 --> 01:36:00,700 they come and have Sunday dinner and visit us which is good 1438 01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:05,200 at least you know you made a little difference to that child's life 1439 01:36:05,235 --> 01:36:07,700 we have Heathrow in our area 1440 01:36:07,800 --> 01:36:11,300 and that gives us extra things foster carers might need to do 1441 01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:15,600 So where are these children coming from that come to your house? 1442 01:36:15,635 --> 01:36:17,600 All over the world 1443 01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:19,800 - Anywhere - Anywhere 1444 01:36:20,200 --> 01:36:24,600 when they come off the plane they expect to meet somebody 1445 01:36:24,635 --> 01:36:27,300 but that person doesn't turn up 1446 01:36:33,800 --> 01:36:36,500 Simon had been at the children's home with Paul 1447 01:36:36,600 --> 01:36:40,500 so we brought Paul back from Australia to re-unite them 1448 01:36:40,535 --> 01:36:42,800 - was it good though? - yeah yeah 1449 01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:46,100 and you can see Windsor Castle from there 1450 01:36:46,135 --> 01:36:48,000 oh wow, look at that 1451 01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:52,500 we don't actually see or touch each other but we're living each others lives 1452 01:36:52,535 --> 01:36:54,400 every seven years it all comes back 1453 01:36:54,500 --> 01:36:58,500 and we get up to this far and we've done this and you've done that 1454 01:36:59,500 --> 01:37:01,100 When they were twenty-one 1455 01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:05,700 we took them back to where they spent some of their formative years together 1456 01:37:08,300 --> 01:37:10,700 - Yeah - He was a real bastard 1457 01:37:11,700 --> 01:37:14,700 I do try to be disciplined but... 1458 01:37:14,735 --> 01:37:17,500 I actually hate discipline 1459 01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:21,100 I believe the school has taught me that 1460 01:37:21,135 --> 01:37:24,600 There's always been a bit of turmoil inside 1461 01:37:24,635 --> 01:37:27,300 I believe that 1462 01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:30,900 I can get on well with my mother sometimes 1463 01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:34,700 we talk very well with each other 1464 01:37:34,735 --> 01:37:36,100 but it's.. 1465 01:37:36,200 --> 01:37:39,800 sometimes not quite as mother and son 1466 01:37:40,600 --> 01:37:44,700 When he was thirty-five, Simon's mother died of cancer 1467 01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:49,600 there was so many things I never actually said to my mum 1468 01:37:50,700 --> 01:37:56,200 just things you think about afterwards, it's too late because they're not there any more 1469 01:37:56,400 --> 01:37:58,700 What sort of things? 1470 01:37:59,600 --> 01:38:02,100 Just, I love you every day, and... 1471 01:38:02,200 --> 01:38:06,200 Later on in life I did realise she got depressed as well so... 1472 01:38:06,300 --> 01:38:10,300 that was probably a bigger reason than not being able to look after me 1473 01:38:10,400 --> 01:38:14,500 My mum wrote to me when I was twenty-one and I never had any contact with her 1474 01:38:14,535 --> 01:38:16,800 When I was twenty-one she came out an visited 1475 01:38:16,900 --> 01:38:21,300 I did grow up without her so it was like looking at a total stranger 1476 01:38:21,335 --> 01:38:23,200 I didn't recognise her at all 1477 01:38:23,300 --> 01:38:28,600 so there was no real indepth feeling there 1478 01:38:28,900 --> 01:38:31,800 Come on get in there next to him as well 1479 01:38:31,835 --> 01:38:33,900 come on, let me get you organised 1480 01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:36,100 Are these two guys very alike? 1481 01:38:36,400 --> 01:38:38,200 Well I think they are as... 1482 01:38:38,300 --> 01:38:41,600 they don't rush into things, they stand back and have a look at it 1483 01:38:41,635 --> 01:38:43,467 you make them enjoy their self's, like.. 1484 01:38:43,502 --> 01:38:45,300 when we went for a walk yesterday I said... 1485 01:38:45,400 --> 01:38:49,300 "You ARE coming and you ARE having a good time" and he did have a good time so... 1486 01:38:49,335 --> 01:38:52,800 they're both very family orientated 1487 01:38:52,900 --> 01:38:56,400 - and they've both married noisy women! - That's true! 1488 01:38:57,400 --> 01:38:58,700 that works for me 1489 01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:04,350 I had a dream when all the world was on top of me... 1490 01:39:04,385 --> 01:39:09,900 and everything was on me, and I just about got out 1491 01:39:09,935 --> 01:39:11,900 and everything flew up in the air... 1492 01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:16,300 I still look up in the sky as I don't know any better 1493 01:39:16,335 --> 01:39:18,900 everything I have, I always think... 1494 01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:22,600 "Is that OK? is it right that I should have that?" 1495 01:39:22,635 --> 01:39:25,700 people are undecided about you 1496 01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:29,700 they can be friend one day and not the next 1497 01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:34,700 I wanted to be a boxer, actor... but... 1498 01:39:34,735 --> 01:39:38,800 but I never actually really wanted them 1499 01:39:38,835 --> 01:39:41,100 I just wanted to be liked 1500 01:39:41,200 --> 01:39:44,300 That's all Paul wants out of people 1501 01:39:44,400 --> 01:39:46,950 people to like him for who he is and what he is 1502 01:39:46,985 --> 01:39:49,500 without having to put on any false pretences 1503 01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:52,400 so I think that's why he doesn't open himself up to people 1504 01:39:54,500 --> 01:39:58,600 - Do you have any regrets? - Yes I do... 1505 01:39:59,200 --> 01:40:01,800 that we didn't get together earlier 1506 01:40:01,900 --> 01:40:05,400 - I think marriage is good for me - What does she give you? 1507 01:40:05,900 --> 01:40:08,900 Hot dinners and a warm bed! 1508 01:40:08,935 --> 01:40:11,300 I don't know! 1509 01:40:14,300 --> 01:40:17,500 she gives me a balance in my life because... 1510 01:40:17,900 --> 01:40:22,600 on my own I would probably be your typical slob 1511 01:40:23,900 --> 01:40:26,700 men behaving badly 1512 01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:31,500 we do get things done and we do things together 1513 01:40:31,535 --> 01:40:33,300 ...multiply by four and divide... 1514 01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:37,800 Is it tough for the two of you being in these films? 1515 01:40:37,835 --> 01:40:42,200 I will say that I do love watching everybody else 1516 01:40:42,300 --> 01:40:46,900 but I always hate them and by the end I hate you lot too! 1517 01:40:46,935 --> 01:40:51,500 direct all of my anger in one place y'know! 1518 01:40:51,535 --> 01:40:54,200 I read the Financial Times 1519 01:40:54,300 --> 01:40:57,200 I read the Observer and the Times 1520 01:40:57,300 --> 01:40:59,600 What do you like about it? 1521 01:40:59,635 --> 01:41:01,000 Well I like... 1522 01:41:01,100 --> 01:41:05,200 I usually look at the headlines then read about it 1523 01:41:08,600 --> 01:41:12,250 At seven years old, John, Andrew and Charles... 1524 01:41:12,285 --> 01:41:15,900 were in a private preparatory school in London 1525 01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:20,100 What's the point of the program? 1526 01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:23,600 it's the point of the program is to reach a comparison 1527 01:41:23,635 --> 01:41:25,400 and I don't think it is 1528 01:41:25,500 --> 01:41:28,300 - Good point - Because we're not typical examples 1529 01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:31,200 and I think that's what people seeing the program might think 1530 01:41:31,235 --> 01:41:32,400 falsely 1531 01:41:32,500 --> 01:41:34,400 That's one of the troubles with this sort of program 1532 01:41:34,435 --> 01:41:36,800 I don't really think that people like us 1533 01:41:36,900 --> 01:41:40,300 Unless we're seven and being rather funny, have very much to say that's... 1534 01:41:40,335 --> 01:41:42,900 very interesting, because I mean... 1535 01:41:42,935 --> 01:41:45,100 we don't know very much 1536 01:41:45,200 --> 01:41:47,100 Well we didn't know very much when we were seven 1537 01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:48,900 - But we were still quite funny - We were at least funny! 1538 01:41:48,935 --> 01:41:51,900 What do you think about girlfriends at your age? 1539 01:41:51,935 --> 01:41:54,800 I've got one but I don't think much of her 1540 01:41:54,835 --> 01:41:57,800 They're no longer just bores 1541 01:41:57,900 --> 01:42:00,100 "We won't play this" or something 1542 01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:03,400 they're the other half of the community and they're there 1543 01:42:03,700 --> 01:42:05,700 and you can begin to talk to them 1544 01:42:05,800 --> 01:42:09,900 I don't think I financially come from the same background 1545 01:42:10,700 --> 01:42:15,300 Andrew didn't go for a classy debutante, he went for a good Yorkshire lass 1546 01:42:15,335 --> 01:42:17,600 but obviously he knew what he wanted 1547 01:42:17,635 --> 01:42:20,400 Does money concern you a lot? 1548 01:42:20,500 --> 01:42:24,000 No I think as long as one has enough to be comfortable 1549 01:42:24,500 --> 01:42:27,200 that's really what one should aim for 1550 01:42:27,300 --> 01:42:31,600 What's the most difficult thing about keeping the marriage together? 1551 01:42:31,635 --> 01:42:34,200 I don't think it is particularly difficult actually 1552 01:42:34,235 --> 01:42:36,900 we seem to manage alright 1553 01:42:37,000 --> 01:42:40,400 - Would you say? - I think so, we talk don't we 1554 01:42:40,435 --> 01:42:42,600 So how is married life? 1555 01:42:42,700 --> 01:42:46,700 Well I still Love him if that's what you're asking 1556 01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:49,400 and likewise 1557 01:42:50,200 --> 01:42:53,400 I'm going to Charterhouse 1558 01:42:53,500 --> 01:42:59,000 and after that, Trinity Hall Cambridge 1559 01:42:59,500 --> 01:43:03,700 Andrew went to Charterhouse and Cambridge, where he read law 1560 01:43:04,100 --> 01:43:06,500 I'd like to be a solicitor 1561 01:43:06,535 --> 01:43:08,900 and also fairly successful 1562 01:43:09,000 --> 01:43:12,600 at twenty-eight Andrew was a solicitor 1563 01:43:12,700 --> 01:43:16,300 What qualities do you think it needs to be successful? 1564 01:43:16,700 --> 01:43:21,100 Well you have to have a legal ability in my business, obviously 1565 01:43:21,135 --> 01:43:24,500 by thirty-five he had become a partner 1566 01:43:24,600 --> 01:43:28,400 In a couple of weeks we're having a legal conference in Dublin 1567 01:43:28,435 --> 01:43:31,500 At forty-nine, Andrew has left the law firm 1568 01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:35,600 I've moved to a large industrial gas's company which makes... 1569 01:43:35,635 --> 01:43:38,900 oxygen and nitrogen, hyrdrogen, things like that 1570 01:43:38,935 --> 01:43:40,300 Were you taking a chance? 1571 01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:45,000 Ye's, I've been at the same firm for over twenty years 1572 01:43:45,400 --> 01:43:48,600 but it's not very challenging 1573 01:43:48,635 --> 01:43:50,400 and changing like this 1574 01:43:50,500 --> 01:43:54,200 particularly quite late in your career, stretches you 1575 01:43:54,235 --> 01:43:57,500 I think it's not a bad idea to pay for schools 1576 01:43:57,535 --> 01:43:59,100 because if we didn't 1577 01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:02,400 schools would be so nasty and crowded 1578 01:44:02,435 --> 01:44:04,400 Yes, so do I think so 1579 01:44:04,500 --> 01:44:09,800 and the people in the schools wouldn't... and the poor people would come rushing in 1580 01:44:09,835 --> 01:44:14,200 and the man in charge of the school would get very angry 1581 01:44:14,600 --> 01:44:16,700 and he would get bankrupt 1582 01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:22,800 he wouldn't be able to pay all the teachers if he didn't get any money 1583 01:44:22,835 --> 01:44:25,400 education is very important 1584 01:44:25,500 --> 01:44:30,200 and you can never be sure of leaving your children any wordly goods, but 1585 01:44:30,235 --> 01:44:34,900 at least you can be sure that once you've given them a good education 1586 01:44:34,935 --> 01:44:37,700 that's something that no one can take away 1587 01:44:38,100 --> 01:44:43,100 Andrew and Jane have two sons, Alexander and Timothy 1588 01:44:45,000 --> 01:44:48,900 Alexander's at univeristy in his first year at Newcastle 1589 01:44:49,900 --> 01:44:52,400 and Timothy's at boarding school 1590 01:44:52,500 --> 01:44:56,900 I think he'd like to go to university but that's as far as he's thought 1591 01:44:56,935 --> 01:45:02,800 over the summer holidays we might talk about other universities 1592 01:45:03,800 --> 01:45:08,700 Andrew and Jane live in London but they have a second home in the country 1593 01:45:10,100 --> 01:45:13,100 Well we bought it just when we got married 1594 01:45:13,200 --> 01:45:17,350 it was a two-hundred year old barn we bought in an auction 1595 01:45:17,385 --> 01:45:21,500 completely derelict, nothing in it at all except for manure 1596 01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:26,100 and slowly over the years we've just been converting it 1597 01:45:26,400 --> 01:45:30,800 but it's really taken us up until recently to do that 1598 01:45:30,835 --> 01:45:32,000 Holly come on 1599 01:45:32,500 --> 01:45:36,450 there's a railway line that runs along the bottom of our land 1600 01:45:36,485 --> 01:45:40,400 there's foxes down there, we've been seeing a few cubs recently 1601 01:45:40,800 --> 01:45:45,000 What sort of hobbies does Alexander enjoy? 1602 01:45:46,300 --> 01:45:50,000 Well on the odd occassion he's quite keen on doing what we call... 1603 01:45:50,035 --> 01:45:52,200 dangerous sports 1604 01:45:52,500 --> 01:45:56,250 and we're going to treat him to a balloon ride 1605 01:45:56,285 --> 01:46:00,000 in advance of his birthday which is coming up soon 1606 01:46:00,035 --> 01:46:02,100 - Here we go - See you later 1607 01:46:05,900 --> 01:46:10,200 I have been in a balloon once myself, it was for my fathers birthday 1608 01:46:10,235 --> 01:46:14,500 it was all going well until the end when we managed to hit some trees 1609 01:46:14,535 --> 01:46:16,500 Oh don't tell me that now 1610 01:46:16,600 --> 01:46:20,100 and the basket landed on its side 1611 01:46:20,135 --> 01:46:22,900 It's very high, very high 1612 01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:27,200 When we landed there was a request that... 1613 01:46:27,500 --> 01:46:33,100 that all the ladies go down wind so that we could land on top of them 1614 01:46:34,200 --> 01:46:38,100 Once I had a talk to Grevil, he was in my class 1615 01:46:38,700 --> 01:46:40,400 and 1616 01:46:40,500 --> 01:46:47,200 I asked Sir if he could put him out of my class as he was always getting minuses 1617 01:46:47,235 --> 01:46:52,500 Do you think life is tougher for your children than it was for you? 1618 01:46:52,535 --> 01:46:56,500 Yes certainly, I think it's much more competetive for children 1619 01:46:57,000 --> 01:47:01,900 When I leave the school, I go to Broadstairs, St. Peter's Court 1620 01:47:02,000 --> 01:47:06,600 when you look back at us at age seven and I was saying what I was going to do 1621 01:47:06,635 --> 01:47:10,600 it's as if my life was mapped out for me 1622 01:47:12,700 --> 01:47:16,500 you could never get a child saying that now "I'm going to go to Cambridge" 1623 01:47:16,535 --> 01:47:18,700 things have become less certain as a result 1624 01:47:18,800 --> 01:47:24,500 - and you three had huge opportunities - we did, absolutely yes 1625 01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:29,600 Well I think boarding makes you feel self-sufficient 1626 01:47:30,900 --> 01:47:33,600 and also it teaches you to be away from your parents 1627 01:47:33,700 --> 01:47:39,900 who was the big influence in giving you a sense of proprotion and value? 1628 01:47:39,935 --> 01:47:42,600 Well obviously it's your parents 1629 01:47:42,700 --> 01:47:46,000 they bring you up for your first eighteen years of life 1630 01:47:46,035 --> 01:47:49,700 Well I have my bath at six o'clock... 1631 01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:56,700 Do you ever look back and wish anything differently? 1632 01:47:57,400 --> 01:48:02,400 perhaps as the children were growing up I'd liked to have spent more time... 1633 01:48:02,435 --> 01:48:04,900 at home with them, rather than in the office 1634 01:48:05,400 --> 01:48:08,300 but obviously that's too late to do now 1635 01:48:08,335 --> 01:48:11,200 So everything we say, they'll think 1636 01:48:11,300 --> 01:48:14,900 "well that's a typical result of the public school system" 1637 01:48:15,000 --> 01:48:21,300 when we were seven, fourteen and twenty-one we were prepared to say what we thought 1638 01:48:21,335 --> 01:48:25,200 but we've become more guarded over the years 1639 01:48:25,900 --> 01:48:28,000 What are you guarded about? 1640 01:48:28,900 --> 01:48:31,500 I'm guarded about being guarded! 1641 01:48:33,400 --> 01:48:35,700 Here we go 1642 01:48:35,800 --> 01:48:40,400 - So did you have to fall on the ladies? - No the lady fell on me 1643 01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:44,200 but it was my wife so that was good 1644 01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:46,500 When I leave school 1645 01:48:46,600 --> 01:48:50,600 I'm going to The Dragon School, I might 1646 01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:57,100 and after I might go to Charterhouse Marlborough 1647 01:48:57,200 --> 01:49:01,800 I don't particularly want to be rich but I'd like to have enough money 1648 01:49:02,100 --> 01:49:06,350 Charles went to Marlborough and then onto Durham university 1649 01:49:06,385 --> 01:49:10,600 since twenty-one he's taken no further part in these films 1650 01:49:10,635 --> 01:49:16,500 when I leave this school I'm going to Collet Court 1651 01:49:18,400 --> 01:49:24,000 and then I would be going to Westminster Boarding School if I pass the exam 1652 01:49:24,035 --> 01:49:30,100 and then we think I'm going to Cambridge and Trinity Hall 1653 01:49:32,500 --> 01:49:37,100 John went to Westminster and read Law at Christchurch Oxford 1654 01:49:38,900 --> 01:49:43,100 I'm thinking of following a legal career... 1655 01:49:43,400 --> 01:49:46,300 with a view to ending in parliament 1656 01:49:46,335 --> 01:49:48,900 Might be in the courts 1657 01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:51,200 Doing what? 1658 01:49:51,300 --> 01:49:53,300 Perhaps Chancery practise 1659 01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:56,100 I now have a career, I'm a Barrister 1660 01:49:56,200 --> 01:50:00,500 other than that life chugs along in varying degrees 1661 01:50:00,600 --> 01:50:04,700 well in a sense nothing's has changed in my job in the last fourteen years 1662 01:50:04,735 --> 01:50:07,900 I'm still a barrister, I still wear a curly white wig 1663 01:50:08,500 --> 01:50:13,800 the only visible difference is I wear a silk gown as I'm now a Q.C. 1664 01:50:13,835 --> 01:50:16,800 - Are you ambitious? - Yes 1665 01:50:16,835 --> 01:50:20,600 - What for? - Fame 1666 01:50:20,635 --> 01:50:22,600 and power 1667 01:50:23,500 --> 01:50:26,900 - what sort of power? - political power 1668 01:50:27,000 --> 01:50:32,000 I'd quite like to go into politics but that's easier said than done 1669 01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:39,900 I have thought about trying to get myself on the candidates list 1670 01:50:41,100 --> 01:50:46,900 but who knows, I haven't written myself off as a potential politician... 1671 01:50:46,935 --> 01:50:49,900 even though I'm already forty-nine 1672 01:50:51,300 --> 01:50:57,200 I worry about the quality of our democracy, I worry about this government 1673 01:50:58,400 --> 01:51:02,900 not because they're socialists and will round us all up and take us off 1674 01:51:02,935 --> 01:51:08,100 Trafalgar square to face the guillotine, far from it... 1675 01:51:08,135 --> 01:51:12,400 Tony Blair is a very good conservative as I see it 1676 01:51:12,500 --> 01:51:17,000 but rather because of the insidious damage they are doing to our constitution 1677 01:51:17,035 --> 01:51:21,400 The rich children always make fun of poor children 1678 01:51:22,200 --> 01:51:26,400 it's very irresponsible as we all want more money as much money as we can get 1679 01:51:26,500 --> 01:51:33,900 The acquisition of lots and lots of money is not something I set much importance by 1680 01:51:33,935 --> 01:51:37,200 I'm not money minded in that sense 1681 01:51:37,300 --> 01:51:41,100 Obviously it's nice to have a fair amount of money 1682 01:51:41,200 --> 01:51:47,600 and it does enable you to go on nice holidays, buy nice things, but... 1683 01:51:47,700 --> 01:51:53,350 as a goal in itself? no, who want's to be the richest corpse in the graveyard? 1684 01:51:53,385 --> 01:51:59,000 By the time he was thirty-five, John had a house in London and one in the country 1685 01:51:59,035 --> 01:52:02,167 I seem to spend a lot of time gardening furiously 1686 01:52:02,202 --> 01:52:05,301 trying to tame the wilderness that we inherited there 1687 01:52:05,336 --> 01:52:08,400 I'd have laughed if ten years ago you'd have told me that 1688 01:52:08,500 --> 01:52:13,400 I'd spend most of my time digging herbacious borders and things 1689 01:52:13,435 --> 01:52:16,000 but that's what I seem to do and I enjoy it 1690 01:52:16,500 --> 01:52:20,700 one good thing about having a large house in the country now is that 1691 01:52:20,735 --> 01:52:23,400 I've taken up playing the piano 1692 01:52:23,500 --> 01:52:26,600 Its a very nonchalant little theme, butter wouldn't melt in its mouth 1693 01:52:26,635 --> 01:52:30,200 Take it very quietly and let it just present itself 1694 01:52:31,800 --> 01:52:35,800 A couple of years ago I did start again and even practising, but I'm afraid... 1695 01:52:35,835 --> 01:52:38,600 I've lost an awful I ot of dexterity 1696 01:52:48,700 --> 01:52:53,050 whether it's old age and arthritis or it's falling off horses too many times 1697 01:52:53,085 --> 01:52:57,400 I don't know but I don't feel I've got quite the dexterity in my fingers 1698 01:52:59,300 --> 01:53:03,100 Certainly I can never tell the difference between you playing and the CD playing 1699 01:53:03,135 --> 01:53:07,300 - When I'm out of the room, he's very good - She's very diplomatic 1700 01:53:07,335 --> 01:53:08,700 No no it's true 1701 01:53:08,800 --> 01:53:12,900 When boys go around with girls they don't pay attention to what they're doing 1702 01:53:12,935 --> 01:53:16,400 for instance my grandmother had an accident, because 1703 01:53:16,500 --> 01:53:20,000 a boyfriend was kissing his girlfriend in the street 1704 01:53:21,800 --> 01:53:24,500 By thirty-five John had married Claire 1705 01:53:24,600 --> 01:53:28,200 the daughter of a former ambassador to Bulgaria 1706 01:53:28,235 --> 01:53:31,500 It is coincidental that we met but.. 1707 01:53:31,600 --> 01:53:37,700 it's obvious that the Balkan connection was a strong mutual interest 1708 01:53:42,800 --> 01:53:47,500 We have a charity, Friends of Bulgaria 1709 01:53:47,535 --> 01:53:50,200 which started in 1991 1710 01:53:50,300 --> 01:53:55,100 which made quite a lot of money we then invested and took out to Bulgaria 1711 01:53:55,135 --> 01:53:58,400 we support some children's homes in Stara Zagora 1712 01:53:58,435 --> 01:54:01,067 an institution for disabled children 1713 01:54:01,102 --> 01:54:03,700 and we make donations to other charities 1714 01:54:03,800 --> 01:54:08,000 people who talk about the government butchering the National Health Service 1715 01:54:08,035 --> 01:54:10,200 I think should come over to Bulgaria 1716 01:54:10,300 --> 01:54:15,900 to see what being kept short of necessary supplies and funds really does mean 1717 01:54:15,935 --> 01:54:19,900 we've been told in some places it's impossible to do operations 1718 01:54:20,000 --> 01:54:24,000 albeit they have the operating theatres and excellent doctors 1719 01:54:24,035 --> 01:54:26,300 for want of simple anaesthetics 1720 01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:31,800 Up until then there had been no provision for education of disabled children 1721 01:54:31,835 --> 01:54:35,600 so we started what was called a Parralleca 1722 01:54:35,700 --> 01:54:39,500 which is parrallel education for the disabled 1723 01:54:39,535 --> 01:54:41,700 and we've now got two classes here 1724 01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:54,600 Claire and I have been giving prizes to the most talented children in town 1725 01:54:56,000 --> 01:55:01,700 this school that we're in was built by my family at the end of the 19th century 1726 01:55:01,735 --> 01:55:04,900 and they also used to present prizes... 1727 01:55:05,000 --> 01:55:11,300 to the best children each year right until the advent of communism in 1944 1728 01:55:12,100 --> 01:55:15,400 I come from a very old family 1729 01:55:15,500 --> 01:55:18,800 with big traditions of service to this country 1730 01:55:18,835 --> 01:55:19,900 and 1731 01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:22,800 when I come here I feel very proud of them 1732 01:55:22,900 --> 01:55:27,000 as I feel in so many ways they've helped build Bulgaria 1733 01:55:28,600 --> 01:55:31,100 this church is quite interesting 1734 01:55:31,200 --> 01:55:37,000 it was built by my great great great grandfather in 1835 1735 01:55:37,035 --> 01:55:40,600 they say he made off with eight tons of gold 1736 01:55:40,700 --> 01:55:44,500 and even today the mountains are full of treasure hunters 1737 01:55:44,600 --> 01:55:48,500 who keep digging up all the caves in hope of finding the treasure 1738 01:55:48,535 --> 01:55:50,700 I wish I could find it 1739 01:55:50,800 --> 01:55:54,600 once I'd refinded my equitable life pension fund 1740 01:55:54,635 --> 01:55:56,200 I reckon... 1741 01:55:56,300 --> 01:56:00,100 shoot the horses, shoot the wife and... 1742 01:56:00,200 --> 01:56:05,600 and only drink Bulgarian wine I may be able to retire aged 94 or something 1743 01:56:06,500 --> 01:56:12,200 Straw McAnessy got three minuses in a day, he's a pest 1744 01:56:12,300 --> 01:56:16,900 it has to be said that I bitterly regret that the headmaster of the school 1745 01:56:16,935 --> 01:56:20,000 where I was when I was seven, pushed me forward for this series 1746 01:56:20,100 --> 01:56:25,900 because every seven years a little pill of poison is injected into... 1747 01:56:25,935 --> 01:56:26,900 Oh no! 1748 01:56:27,000 --> 01:56:29,700 Well that's just the truth 1749 01:56:29,800 --> 01:56:33,100 there are times when I've felt appearing on this... 1750 01:56:33,135 --> 01:56:36,400 may get causes near to my heart a bit of publicity 1751 01:56:36,500 --> 01:56:41,400 and certainly, when you came to Bulgaria for the 35up program 1752 01:56:41,435 --> 01:56:45,400 that did lead to us getting quite significant assistance 1753 01:56:45,435 --> 01:56:47,900 which possibly we wouldn't have got 1754 01:56:48,000 --> 01:56:50,400 well I think it's a very good system 1755 01:56:50,500 --> 01:56:55,100 I suspect that why this program is compelling and interesting for viewers 1756 01:56:55,135 --> 01:56:57,500 and I quite see why it is because really... 1757 01:56:57,600 --> 01:57:01,800 it's like Big Brother or I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here 1758 01:57:01,835 --> 01:57:04,600 it is actually real life TV 1759 01:57:04,700 --> 01:57:09,600 with the added bonus that you can see people grow old, lose their hair, get fat 1760 01:57:11,100 --> 01:57:16,800 fascinating I'm sure, but does it have any value? that's a different question 1761 01:57:18,600 --> 01:57:21,800 Well we pretend we've got swords 1762 01:57:21,900 --> 01:57:24,600 and we make the noises of the swords fighting 1763 01:57:24,635 --> 01:57:27,300 and when somebody stabs us we go "ARRGHHH!" 1764 01:57:27,335 --> 01:57:30,400 Neil grew up in a Liverpool suburb 1765 01:57:30,500 --> 01:57:34,100 he had dreams of going to Oxford but didn't get in 1766 01:57:34,135 --> 01:57:36,800 instead he went to Aberdeen university 1767 01:57:36,900 --> 01:57:39,600 but dropped out after the first term 1768 01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:44,300 at twenty-one he was working on a building site 1769 01:57:44,335 --> 01:57:47,300 and living in a squat 1770 01:57:47,400 --> 01:57:52,200 I would like to be somebody in a position of importance and I've always thought this 1771 01:57:52,235 --> 01:57:55,900 but I don't think I'm the right sort of person to carry the responsibility 1772 01:57:55,935 --> 01:57:59,200 for whatever it is, I always thought well I'd love to be... 1773 01:57:59,700 --> 01:58:04,300 possibly even love to be in politics or something like this 1774 01:58:05,900 --> 01:58:08,300 by twenty-eight he was homeless 1775 01:58:08,400 --> 01:58:11,600 wandering around the West coast of Scotland 1776 01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:16,200 if the money runs out then for a few days there's nowhere to go to 1777 01:58:16,300 --> 01:58:21,300 and that's all you can do, I simply have to find the warmest shed I can find 1778 01:58:21,900 --> 01:58:24,200 How do people regard you here? 1779 01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:28,600 Well I'm still known as an eccentric 1780 01:58:31,100 --> 01:58:37,100 I'm not claiming that I feel as though I'm in some sort of Nirvana, but 1781 01:58:37,600 --> 01:58:42,200 I'm claiming that if I was living in a bed-sit in suburbia I'd be so miserable 1782 01:58:42,235 --> 01:58:45,000 I'd feel like cutting my throat 1783 01:58:45,100 --> 01:58:47,900 At thirty-five we found him living on a council estate 1784 01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:51,700 in the most Northernly part of Britain, the Shetland Islands 1785 01:58:51,800 --> 01:58:56,500 it's an environment which sustains me, it's one in which I can survive 1786 01:58:57,100 --> 01:58:58,800 and the reason I don't feel safe is because 1787 01:58:58,900 --> 01:59:02,400 I think I'm getting more and more used to this lifestyle 1788 01:59:02,900 --> 01:59:05,600 which eventually I shall have to give up 1789 01:59:06,800 --> 01:59:10,600 and what would you like to be doing say in seven years? 1790 01:59:10,700 --> 01:59:13,900 I can think of all kinds of things I'd like to be doing the real question is 1791 01:59:13,935 --> 01:59:18,000 what am I likely to be doing? 1792 01:59:23,000 --> 01:59:25,500 What are you likely to be doing? 1793 01:59:25,535 --> 01:59:27,800 That's a horrible question 1794 01:59:27,900 --> 01:59:34,400 I think most likely I'll be wandering homeless around the streets of London 1795 01:59:34,435 --> 01:59:38,300 but with a bit of luck that won't happen 1796 01:59:41,200 --> 01:59:45,200 I'll just point out some of the considerable disadvantages 1797 01:59:45,235 --> 01:59:48,100 first of all they are geographically isolated 1798 01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:54,000 by 42, Neil had moved to London and was a liberal democrat on Hackney council 1799 01:59:54,400 --> 01:59:58,900 While I was in Shetland I felt strongly that I should become involved in politics 1800 01:59:58,935 --> 02:00:03,900 simply because I felt I wasn't acheiving things in the way I wanted to 1801 02:00:08,800 --> 02:00:12,100 I didn't expect to see you driving Neil 1802 02:00:13,100 --> 02:00:15,200 Well neither did I, if you'd asked me that question... 1803 02:00:15,235 --> 02:00:18,200 a few years ago I'd have been surprised 1804 02:00:18,235 --> 02:00:21,900 but it was my brother's wife's car 1805 02:00:22,000 --> 02:00:25,300 and fortunately she was about to change vehicles at the time 1806 02:00:25,400 --> 02:00:30,800 and they let me have it without charge which was a very magnimious gesture 1807 02:00:32,400 --> 02:00:35,200 At 49 Neil has left London 1808 02:00:35,300 --> 02:00:38,300 moved to Cumbria in the North West of England 1809 02:00:38,335 --> 02:00:41,300 and become a member of the local district council 1810 02:00:41,400 --> 02:00:45,300 chairman, fairly simple, it was a committee decision, a majority decision 1811 02:00:45,335 --> 02:00:49,200 his own group on the establishment committee agreed with the decision 1812 02:00:49,800 --> 02:00:51,300 Councillor Hughes 1813 02:00:51,400 --> 02:00:53,100 For Councillor Nyam's information 1814 02:00:53,200 --> 02:00:58,100 Councillor Cook has reconsidered his opinion you ventured at that meeting 1815 02:00:58,135 --> 02:01:02,000 I'm a liberal democrat, I'm standing for the county council 1816 02:01:02,035 --> 02:01:06,800 for this seat which is 400 square miles in size 1817 02:01:06,835 --> 02:01:09,400 so it's a huge constituency 1818 02:01:09,800 --> 02:01:13,100 - and this is one of the 84 seats - and who has this seat at the moment? 1819 02:01:13,135 --> 02:01:15,900 it's a conservative councillor at the moment 1820 02:01:15,935 --> 02:01:18,300 - a big majority? - significant 1821 02:01:18,400 --> 02:01:21,800 there's a lot of work for me to do and if not this time maybe next time 1822 02:01:21,835 --> 02:01:23,800 what are the chances this time? 1823 02:01:23,835 --> 02:01:25,800 I'm doing my best 1824 02:01:26,900 --> 02:01:29,700 funnily enough, when I first came up here 1825 02:01:29,735 --> 02:01:32,500 I was considering giving it up altogether 1826 02:01:32,600 --> 02:01:37,000 but after only two days I just got involved again 1827 02:01:37,035 --> 02:01:40,500 maybe it's impossible to give up politics 1828 02:01:40,600 --> 02:01:44,800 I have a lot of respect for the liberal dem's but don't think I'll vote for them 1829 02:01:44,835 --> 02:01:47,000 because I'll vote for Mr McClean 1830 02:01:47,100 --> 02:01:52,400 and he's keen on preserving our way of country life with hunting in particular 1831 02:01:52,435 --> 02:01:56,600 it's already disadvantaged us since the problems with foot and mouth 1832 02:01:57,600 --> 02:01:59,600 well certainly more people vote 1833 02:01:59,700 --> 02:02:03,500 perhaps they see the impact more starkly on their lives than those in London 1834 02:02:03,535 --> 02:02:07,700 I found in many parts of London there was a huge apathy because... 1835 02:02:07,735 --> 02:02:09,700 because it seemed like they used to say 1836 02:02:09,800 --> 02:02:12,900 "it doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in" 1837 02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:17,400 So when I saw you 7 years ago you seemed content and happy in London 1838 02:02:17,435 --> 02:02:19,000 so why the change? 1839 02:02:19,100 --> 02:02:21,600 I neither felt that I was satisfying... 1840 02:02:21,700 --> 02:02:25,900 the community around me, nor did I feel I was satisfying myself 1841 02:02:25,935 --> 02:02:28,800 and that was obviously not an ideal situation 1842 02:02:28,900 --> 02:02:32,800 at 42 when Neil first arrived in London from the Shetland Islands 1843 02:02:32,835 --> 02:02:34,500 he lodged with Bruce 1844 02:02:34,600 --> 02:02:36,200 he was a model host 1845 02:02:36,300 --> 02:02:38,300 although he did always insist on 1846 02:02:38,400 --> 02:02:41,600 measuring the amount of bathwater there was in the bath! 1847 02:02:41,635 --> 02:02:43,300 and I'm not quite sure why that was 1848 02:02:43,400 --> 02:02:46,400 he'd find the fridge a bit noisy so he'd turn it off! 1849 02:02:46,435 --> 02:02:49,400 I had occassions where he'd walk round the block or... 1850 02:02:49,500 --> 02:02:52,900 No I accept that I wasn't the model lodger in every way 1851 02:02:53,600 --> 02:02:57,300 however that only emphasises how patient you actually were 1852 02:02:57,900 --> 02:03:01,900 I've had little contact with Bruce, we've exchanged one or two letters 1853 02:03:01,935 --> 02:03:02,800 but 1854 02:03:02,900 --> 02:03:05,850 maybe ours was a friendship which had flourished 1855 02:03:05,885 --> 02:03:08,800 it was a genuine friendship in the circumstances... 1856 02:03:08,835 --> 02:03:11,000 in which we found ourselves in London 1857 02:03:11,100 --> 02:03:12,900 I think that's what happens in life, you... 1858 02:03:13,000 --> 02:03:17,100 people you are close to and then circumstances drift you apart 1859 02:03:17,135 --> 02:03:19,900 and you find other peopleand... 1860 02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:23,900 you wonder sometimes what's happening to them and hope they're alright... 1861 02:03:23,935 --> 02:03:26,600 but that's what happens in life 1862 02:03:27,800 --> 02:03:30,200 in the winter if you live in the country 1863 02:03:30,300 --> 02:03:35,400 it would just all be wet and there wouldn't be anything for miles around 1864 02:03:36,800 --> 02:03:41,800 I feel, especially sometimes when I'm on my own 1865 02:03:41,900 --> 02:03:45,100 that I'm losing touch with the way other people live 1866 02:03:47,000 --> 02:03:50,500 Do you worry about your sanity? 1867 02:03:53,000 --> 02:03:56,300 Other people sometimes worry about it 1868 02:03:56,335 --> 02:03:58,300 Like who? 1869 02:04:02,300 --> 02:04:09,100 As I said I sometimes can start behaving in an erratic fashion 1870 02:04:09,135 --> 02:04:12,300 sometimes I get very frustrated, very angry 1871 02:04:12,400 --> 02:04:17,100 for no apparent reason, for a reason that won't be apparent to people around me 1872 02:04:17,135 --> 02:04:19,500 Do you ever think you're going mad? 1873 02:04:19,535 --> 02:04:22,700 Oh I don't think it, I know it 1874 02:04:24,100 --> 02:04:25,900 well 'cause... 1875 02:04:26,900 --> 02:04:31,200 we're not allowed to use the word mad but you know... 1876 02:04:31,600 --> 02:04:34,800 I think most people are mad here, really 1877 02:04:34,835 --> 02:04:36,500 How's your health? 1878 02:04:36,600 --> 02:04:40,400 It's probably very good at the moment and living in this rural setting... 1879 02:04:40,435 --> 02:04:43,300 is obviously healthier than living in a city 1880 02:04:43,335 --> 02:04:45,500 there is less stress 1881 02:04:48,600 --> 02:04:52,000 I ended up with a former council flat 1882 02:04:52,100 --> 02:04:55,800 which is nothing luxurious but I was lucky to get it 1883 02:04:55,835 --> 02:04:59,500 and as soon as I could see the view out of my window 1884 02:04:59,600 --> 02:05:02,800 across the stream and trees and the hills in the background 1885 02:05:02,835 --> 02:05:05,400 I knew I was in the right place 1886 02:05:06,800 --> 02:05:12,400 I know that many people say they feel closer to god in the countryside 1887 02:05:12,435 --> 02:05:16,000 I wouldn't want to be simplistic about it but because... 1888 02:05:16,035 --> 02:05:20,600 one is much closer to natural life 1889 02:05:20,700 --> 02:05:23,850 one is therefore much closer to the springs of life 1890 02:05:23,885 --> 02:05:27,000 - Yes I'd say I believed in god - Are you religious? 1891 02:05:28,000 --> 02:05:30,800 Well I go to church with my parents on Sundays 1892 02:05:31,300 --> 02:05:34,400 well I don't know now even if I believe in god or not 1893 02:05:34,435 --> 02:05:36,800 I've thought an awful lot about it actually 1894 02:05:36,835 --> 02:05:38,000 and I still don't know 1895 02:05:38,100 --> 02:05:40,800 And how's he been treating you? 1896 02:05:40,835 --> 02:05:43,500 Well I said to somebody last week 1897 02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:47,200 that I preferred the old testament to the new testament 1898 02:05:47,235 --> 02:05:50,800 because in the old testament, god is very unpredictable 1899 02:05:51,500 --> 02:05:56,600 and that's how I've seen him in my life 1900 02:05:57,000 --> 02:05:59,400 jesus 1901 02:05:59,435 --> 02:06:01,800 saviour 1902 02:06:01,900 --> 02:06:05,600 none like you 1903 02:06:05,635 --> 02:06:09,300 and strength 1904 02:06:09,335 --> 02:06:12,800 remembering Jim and Ann 1905 02:06:12,835 --> 02:06:14,700 Bruce and Julia 1906 02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:18,000 - and Doreen as well - Doreen 1907 02:06:18,100 --> 02:06:21,700 I was first a Lay Reader in London 1908 02:06:21,800 --> 02:06:27,400 after completeting more training I was re-licensened by the bishop of Carlisle 1909 02:06:27,435 --> 02:06:30,000 nature's lovely, nature's made by god 1910 02:06:30,100 --> 02:06:35,800 it gives me the peace of mind to accept when things don't go the way they want to 1911 02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:38,900 politics can be a very bruising game 1912 02:06:39,000 --> 02:06:42,100 - I will maintain my faith, I will continue to trust in god - Yes 1913 02:06:42,200 --> 02:06:48,500 I'm absolutely sure that my faith has helped me through these difficult times 1914 02:06:49,800 --> 02:06:52,300 Would you ever see you having a career in the church? 1915 02:06:52,400 --> 02:06:56,500 While I have a dedication to the church I haven't experienced what I would call 1916 02:06:56,535 --> 02:07:00,600 a calling into the priesthood or anything of that kind 1917 02:07:00,635 --> 02:07:03,200 so the answer is no at the moment 1918 02:07:03,300 --> 02:07:05,700 when I grow up I want to be an astronaut 1919 02:07:05,800 --> 02:07:10,300 but if I can't be an astronaut I think I'll be a coach driver 1920 02:07:10,800 --> 02:07:14,900 if the state didn't give us any money, it would probably just mean crime 1921 02:07:14,935 --> 02:07:18,900 and I'm glad I don't have to steal to keep myself alive 1922 02:07:22,800 --> 02:07:26,400 Neil spends one day a week doing voluntary work for Oxfam 1923 02:07:29,200 --> 02:07:34,300 I enjoy doing this, it's relaxing, I love books and I enjoy the company here 1924 02:07:36,300 --> 02:07:39,900 I'd much rather have a fulltime job where I was being paid 1925 02:07:39,935 --> 02:07:42,700 but because of the coucil work I do... 1926 02:07:42,800 --> 02:07:46,300 I really want a job in the rest of my time that isn't too stressfull 1927 02:07:46,335 --> 02:07:50,300 well these are all �6:99 new so I'm putting them in at �1:99 1928 02:07:50,400 --> 02:07:54,400 I get just over �200 a month allowance for being councillor 1929 02:07:54,435 --> 02:07:59,117 on top of that I get �9 a week job-seekers allowance 1930 02:07:59,152 --> 02:08:03,800 and I get my housing benefits as well which pays my rent 1931 02:08:04,200 --> 02:08:09,200 and I did some teaching of French to young children last year 1932 02:08:09,235 --> 02:08:11,200 and that was a very useful income while I did it 1933 02:08:11,235 --> 02:08:13,700 When I go home, I come... 1934 02:08:13,800 --> 02:08:16,900 I come in and mummy gives me a cup of tea... 1935 02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:22,300 I don't think I was taught any sort of policy of living at all by my parents 1936 02:08:22,335 --> 02:08:24,300 this was probably their biggest mistake 1937 02:08:24,400 --> 02:08:26,300 that I was just left to fend for myself 1938 02:08:26,400 --> 02:08:29,300 in a world which they seemed completely oblivious of 1939 02:08:29,335 --> 02:08:33,000 what I'd like most of all would be... 1940 02:08:33,600 --> 02:08:38,400 to be able to do something for my parents when they are older 1941 02:08:38,435 --> 02:08:43,800 to be there when the time is neccesary 1942 02:08:44,900 --> 02:08:48,700 well my father died five years ago 1943 02:08:48,800 --> 02:08:53,700 I do feel however that I'm a little nearer to my mother since then 1944 02:08:54,300 --> 02:08:57,400 both geographically and possibly emotionally 1945 02:08:57,500 --> 02:09:02,300 it's never been an easy relationship and I'm not claiming everything is healed now 1946 02:09:02,335 --> 02:09:06,900 but I feel I can speak to my mother 1947 02:09:06,935 --> 02:09:09,100 Do you miss your dad? 1948 02:09:09,600 --> 02:09:15,200 I had a great relationship with my father when I was much younger 1949 02:09:16,700 --> 02:09:21,500 my relationship with him did deteriorate as I got older 1950 02:09:22,500 --> 02:09:27,400 I sometimes felt that he'd made the wrong decision in advice he'd given me 1951 02:09:27,435 --> 02:09:31,867 or things he'd done but then obviously he had his own life to lead! 1952 02:09:31,902 --> 02:09:36,300 just a few months before he died we went together to a cricket match 1953 02:09:36,400 --> 02:09:40,900 well we had what I knew would be the last long talk we would have 1954 02:09:40,935 --> 02:09:43,000 because he was dying at the time then 1955 02:09:43,100 --> 02:09:47,400 and we were both relaxed as we were doing something we enjoyed doing 1956 02:09:47,435 --> 02:09:51,600 which was relaxing in the sunshine and watching sport 1957 02:09:51,700 --> 02:09:56,900 so I felt that some bridging of the gap did take place that day 1958 02:09:57,200 --> 02:10:02,400 when I get married I don't want to have any children because 1959 02:10:02,500 --> 02:10:08,600 they are always doing naughty things and making the whole house untidy 1960 02:10:08,635 --> 02:10:13,100 I always told myself that I would never have children 1961 02:10:14,900 --> 02:10:16,900 Why? 1962 02:10:16,935 --> 02:10:18,900 Because 1963 02:10:21,100 --> 02:10:23,900 children inherit something from their parents 1964 02:10:23,935 --> 02:10:26,500 and even if my wife were the most... 1965 02:10:26,600 --> 02:10:30,300 high spirited and ordinary and normal of people 1966 02:10:30,400 --> 02:10:35,900 the child would still stand a very fair chance of being not totally... 1967 02:10:36,100 --> 02:10:41,550 full of happiness because what he or she will have inherited from me 1968 02:10:41,585 --> 02:10:47,000 no I've never married and I don't have a girlfriend at the moment 1969 02:10:48,200 --> 02:10:52,200 it's one of the regrets of my life actually that I've not met... 1970 02:10:52,300 --> 02:10:57,800 somebody of the other sex I thought I could have a permament relationship with 1971 02:10:59,100 --> 02:11:01,400 but 1972 02:11:01,500 --> 02:11:05,100 I'm probably not the easiest of people to get on with 1973 02:11:05,900 --> 02:11:09,600 I did have one girlfriend for close on two years 1974 02:11:09,700 --> 02:11:15,400 so maybe I'm not as completely hopeless a character as might seem to be the case 1975 02:11:15,435 --> 02:11:19,900 Do you miss a physical side, a sexual side in your life? 1976 02:11:19,935 --> 02:11:22,700 I am a physical person 1977 02:11:22,800 --> 02:11:29,000 so I imagine I could be happy in a lasting relationship with somebody 1978 02:11:29,035 --> 02:11:32,000 but you have to make do with reality 1979 02:11:32,100 --> 02:11:36,700 and there are many things that might've happened in my life that haven't happened 1980 02:11:36,735 --> 02:11:43,200 and there is little point in being regretful and angry about that 1981 02:11:44,500 --> 02:11:50,100 You seem to have a much stronger sense of purpose to your life than before 1982 02:11:50,135 --> 02:11:53,567 I see that life comes once and it's quite short 1983 02:11:53,602 --> 02:11:56,851 and you have to appreciate what's good in it 1984 02:11:56,886 --> 02:12:00,100 and if I could just tell a short story... 1985 02:12:00,200 --> 02:12:04,750 I was sunbathing and a butterfly landed quite close to me 1986 02:12:04,785 --> 02:12:09,300 beautiful wings, deep red colours and white circles on them 1987 02:12:09,335 --> 02:12:10,600 and 1988 02:12:10,700 --> 02:12:15,300 these creatures don't last very long but it landed very close to me 1989 02:12:15,335 --> 02:12:17,900 it didn't seem frightened 1990 02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:21,200 and it just seemed to delight in opening and closing its wings 1991 02:12:21,300 --> 02:12:25,800 and just being beautiful for that period of time enjoying the sunshine 1992 02:12:25,835 --> 02:12:29,500 perhaps there isn't anything more to life than that 1993 02:12:29,535 --> 02:12:31,100 than just being what you are 1994 02:12:31,200 --> 02:12:34,300 realising that life goes on all around and... 1995 02:12:34,400 --> 02:12:39,800 there's millions of other living creatures who all have to find their paths as well 1996 02:12:49,300 --> 02:12:52,300 At the end of their very special day in London 1997 02:12:52,335 --> 02:12:55,200 after their trip to the zoo and the party 1998 02:12:55,300 --> 02:12:58,700 we took our children to an adventure playground 1999 02:12:58,735 --> 02:13:01,100 where they could do just what they liked 2000 02:13:02,900 --> 02:13:06,900 those from a children's home set about building a house 2001 02:13:17,800 --> 02:13:19,300 there's Nicholas 2002 02:13:25,300 --> 02:13:26,400 and Tony 2003 02:13:32,400 --> 02:13:34,000 Andrew 2004 02:13:37,600 --> 02:13:38,900 John 2005 02:13:43,700 --> 02:13:45,000 and Bruce 2006 02:13:51,600 --> 02:13:53,000 Suzi 2007 02:13:58,900 --> 02:14:00,800 Jackie and her friends 2008 02:14:06,300 --> 02:14:09,200 give me a child until he is seven 2009 02:14:09,235 --> 02:14:12,100 and I will give you the man 2010 02:14:19,900 --> 02:14:24,300 this has been a glimpse of Britain's future